[openstack-dev] [Openstack-operators] [tc][nova][ironic][mogan] Evaluate Mogan project

Zhenguo Niu niu.zglinux at gmail.com
Wed Sep 27 01:15:21 UTC 2017

Thanks Erik for the response!

I don't mean there are deficiencies in Ironic. Ironic itself is cool, it
works well with TripleO, Nova, Kolla, etc. Mogan just want to be another
client to schedule workloards on Ironic and provide bare metal specific
APIs for users who seeks a way to provider virtual machines and bare metals
separately, or just bare metal cloud without interoperble with other
compute resources under Nova.

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 8:53 AM, Erik McCormick <emccormick at cirrusseven.com>

> My main question here would be this: If you feel there are deficiencies in
> Ironic, why not contribute to improving Ironic rather than spawning a whole
> new project?
> I am happy to take a look at it, and I'm by no means trying to contradict
> your assumptions here. I just get concerned with the overhead and confusion
> that comes with competing projects.
> Also, if you'd like to discuss this in detail with a room full of bodies,
> I suggest proposing a session for the Forum in Sydney. If some of the
> contributors will be there, it would be a good opportunity for you to get
> feedback.
> Cheers,
> Erik
> On Sep 26, 2017 8:41 PM, "Matt Riedemann" <mriedemos at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 9/25/2017 6:27 AM, Zhenguo Niu wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> First of all, thanks for the audiences for Mogan project update in the
>>> TC room during Denver PTG. Here we would like to get more suggestions
>>> before we apply for inclusion.
>>> Speaking only for myself, I find the current direction of one
>>> API+scheduler for vm/baremetal/container unfortunate. After containers
>>> management moved out to be a separated project Zun, baremetal with Nova and
>>> Ironic continues to be a pain point.
>>> #. API
>>> Only part of the Nova APIs and parameters can apply to baremetal
>>> instances, meanwhile for interoperable with other virtual drivers, bare
>>> metal specific APIs such as deploy time RAID, advanced partitions can not
>>>  be included. It's true that we can support various compute drivers, but
>>> the reality is that the support of each of hypervisor is not equal,
>>> especially for bare metals in a virtualization world. But I understand the
>>> problems with that as Nova was designed to provide compute
>>> resources(virtual machines) instead of bare metals.
>>> #. Scheduler
>>> Bare metal doesn't fit in to the model of 1:1 nova-compute to resource,
>>> as nova-compute processes can't be run on the inventory nodes themselves.
>>> That is to say host aggregates, availability zones and such things based on
>>> compute service(host) can't be applied to bare metal resources. And for
>>> grouping like anti-affinity, the granularity is also not same with virtual
>>> machines, bare metal users may want their HA instances not on the same
>>> failure domain instead of the node itself. Short saying, we can only get a
>>> rigid resource class only scheduling for bare metals.
>>> And most of the cloud providers in the market offering virtual machines
>>> and bare metals as separated resources, but unfortunately, it's hard to
>>> achieve this with one compute service. I heard people are deploying
>>> seperated Nova for virtual machines and bare metals with many downstream
>>> hacks to the bare metal single-driver Nova but as the changes to Nova would
>>> be massive and may invasive to virtual machines, it seems not practical to
>>> be upstream.
>>> So we created Mogan [1] about one year ago, which aims to offer bare
>>> metals as first class resources to users with a set of bare metal specific
>>> API and a baremetal-centric scheduler(with Placement service). It was like
>>> an experimental project at the beginning, but the outcome makes us believe
>>> it's the right way. Mogan will fully embrace Ironic for bare metal
>>> provisioning and with RSD server [2] introduced to OpenStack, it will be a
>>> new world for bare metals, as with that we can compose hardware resources
>>> on the fly.
>>> Also, I would like to clarify the overlaps between Mogan and Nova, I bet
>>> there must be some users who wants to use one API for the compute resources
>>> management as they don't care about whether it's a virtual machine or a
>>> bare metal server. Baremetal driver with Nova is still the right choice for
>>> such users to get raw performance compute resources. On the contrary, Mogan
>>> is for real bare metal users and cloud providers who wants to offer bare
>>> metals as a separated resources.
>>> Thank you for your time!
>>> [1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mogan
>>> [2] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-tec
>>> hnology/rack-scale-design-overview.html
>>> --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Zhenguo Niu
>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>> Cross-posting to the operators list since they are the community that
>> you'll likely need to convince the most about Mogan and whether or not they
>> want to start experimenting with it.
>> --
>> Thanks,
>> Matt
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Best Regards,
Zhenguo Niu
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