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We can put warnings all over it and if folks choose to ignore them, then its they who took the risk and get to keep the pieces when it breaks. Some folks are crazy enough to run devstack in production. But does that mean we should just abandon devstack? No. of course not. I don't think we should hold back OpenStack from the benefits this provides just because a few folks might possibly do something bad with it. We do what we can to allow folks to recognize bad ideas. But if they want to do it anyway, thats the freedom of open source. They can. They get to deal with the fallout though, not us. If we always catered to the lowest common denominator we would never get anywhere.

Thanks,
Kevin
________________________________________
From: Doug Hellmann [doug at doughellmann.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:49 AM
To: openstack-dev
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev]    [tc][infra][release][security][stable][kolla][loci][tripleo][docker][kubernetes]        do we want to be publishing binary container images?

Excerpts from Michał Jastrzębski's message of 2017-05-16 11:38:19 -0700:
> On 16 May 2017 at 11:27, Doug Hellmann <doug at doughellmann.com> wrote:
> > Excerpts from Michał Jastrzębski's message of 2017-05-16 09:46:19 -0700:
> >> So another consideration. Do you think whole rule of "not building
> >> binares" should be reconsidered? We are kind of new use case here. We
> >> aren't distro but we are packagers (kind of). I don't think putting us
> >> on equal footing as Red Hat, Canonical or other companies is correct
> >> here.
> >>
> >> K8s is something we want to work with, and what we are discussing is
> >> central to how k8s is used. K8s community creates this culture of
> >> "organic packages" built by anyone, most of companies/projects already
> >> have semi-official container images and I think expectations on
> >> quality of these are well...none? You get what you're given and if you
> >> don't agree, there is always way to reproduce this yourself.
> >>
> >> [Another huge snip]
> >>
> >
> > I wanted to have the discussion, but my position for now is that
> > we should continue as we have been and not change the policy.
> >
> > I don't have a problem with any individual or group of individuals
> > publishing their own organic packages. The issue I have is with
> > making sure it is clear those *are* "organic" and not officially
> > supported by the broader community. One way to do that is to say
> > they need to be built somewhere other than on our shared infrastructure.
> > There may be other ways, though, so I'm looking for input on that.
>
> What I was trying to say here is, current discussion aside, maybe we
> should revise this "not supported by broader community" rule. They may
> very well be supported to a certain point. Support is not just yes or
> no, it's all the levels in between. I think we can afford *some* level
> of official support, even if that some level means best effort made by
> community. If Kolla community, not an individual like myself, would
> like to support these images best to our ability, why aren't we
> allowed? As long as we are crystal clear what is scope of our support,
> why can't we do it? I think we've already proven that it's going to be
> tremendously useful for a lot of people, even in a shape we discuss
> today, that is "best effort, you still need to validate it for
> yourself"...

Right, I understood that. So far I haven't heard anything to change
my mind, though.

I think you're underestimating the amount of risk you're taking on
for yourselves and by extension the rest of the community, and
introducing to potential consumers of the images, by promising to
support production deployments with a small team of people without
the economic structure in place to sustain the work.

Doug

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