[openstack-dev] [tc][all][ptl] Most Supported Queens Goals and Improving Goal Completion

Sean Dague sean at dague.net
Tue Jun 27 11:31:31 UTC 2017

On 06/27/2017 04:50 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> gordon chung wrote:
>> do we know why they're not being completed? indifference? lack of resources?
> I would say it's a mix of reasons. Sometimes it's a resource issue, but
> most of the time it's a prioritization issue (everyone waiting for
> someone else to pick it up), and in remaining cases it's pure
> procrastination (it's not that much work, I'll do it tomorrow).
>> i like the champion idea although i think its scope should be expanded. 
>> i didn't mention this in meeting and the following has no legit research 
>> behind it so feel free to disregard but i imagine some of the 
>> indifference towards the goals is because:
>> - it's often trivial (but important) work
>> many projects are already flooded with a lot of non-trivial, 
>> self-interest goals AND a lot trivial (and unimportant) copy/paste 
>> patches already so it's hard to feel passionate and find motivation to 
>> do it. the champion stuff may help here.
>> - there is a disconnect between the TC and the projects.
>> it seems there is a requirement for the projects to engage the TC but 
>> not necessarily the other way around. for many projects, i'm fairly 
>> certain nothing would change whether they actively engaged the TC or 
>> just left relationship as is and had minimal/no interaction. i apologise 
>> if that's blunt but just based on my own prior experience.
>> i don't know if the TC wants to become PMs but having the goals i feel 
>> sort of requires the TC to be PMs and to actually interact with the PTLs 
>> regularly, not just about the goal itself but the project and it's role 
>> in openstack. maybe it's as designed, but if there's no relationship 
>> there, i don't think 'TC wants you to do this' will get something done. 
>> it's in the same vein as how it's easier to get a patch approved if 
>> you're engaged in a project for some time as oppose to a patch out of 
>> the blue (disclaimer: i did not study sociology).
> When we look at goals, the main issue is generally not writing the
> patches, it's more about getting that prioritized in code review and
> tracking completion. That's where I think champions will help. Sometimes
> teams will need help writing patches, sometimes they will just need
> reminders to prioritize code review up. Someone has to look at the big
> picture and care for the completion of the goal. Having champions will
> also make it look a lot less like 'TC wants you to do this' and more
> like 'we are in this together, completing this goal will make openstack
> better'.


Having worked on a number of things that have touched a bunch of
projects, it turns out that the needs of every project are different.
The reason that multi project efforts seem to take so long, or die out,
is they need a reasonable amount of project management to be effective.

There are lots of demands on teams, and having someone that can
represent a bigger goal, knows what it looks like when complete, and can
go to the affected teams with "here is the next one thing I need from
you to make this whole" really speeds up the process. At least 2 - 3x
(if not more).


Sean Dague

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