[openstack-dev] [trove][all][tc] A proposal to rearchitect Trove

Andrey Kurilin andr.kurilin at gmail.com
Thu Jun 22 16:02:56 UTC 2017

2017-06-22 18:59 GMT+03:00 Fox, Kevin M <Kevin.Fox at pnnl.gov>:

> My $0.02.
> That view of dependencies is why Kubernetes development is outpacing
> OpenStacks and some users are leaving IMO. Not trying to be mean here but
> trying to shine some light on this issue.
> Kubernetes at its core has essentially something kind of equivalent to
> keystone (k8s rbac), nova (container mgmt), cinder (pv/pvc/storageclasses),
> heat with convergence (deployments/daemonsets/etc), barbican (secrets),
> designate (kube-dns), and octavia (kube-proxy,svc,ingress) in one unit. Ops
> dont have to work hard to get all of it, users can assume its all there,
> and devs don't have many silo's to cross to implement features that touch
> multiple pieces.
> This core functionality being combined has allowed them to land features
> that are really important to users but has proven difficult for OpenStack
> to do because of the silo's. OpenStack's general pattern has been, stand up
> a new service for new feature, then no one wants to depend on it so its
> ignored and each silo reimplements a lesser version of it themselves.
Totally agree

The OpenStack commons then continues to suffer.
> We need to stop this destructive cycle.
> OpenStack needs to figure out how to increase its commons. Both internally
> and externally. etcd as a common service was a step in the right direction.
> I think k8s needs to be another common service all the others can rely on.
> That could greatly simplify the rest of the OpenStack projects as a lot of
> its functionality no longer has to be implemented in each project.
> We also need a way to break down the silo walls and allow more cross
> project collaboration for features. I fear the new push for letting
> projects run standalone will make this worse, not better, further
> fracturing OpenStack.
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> ________________________________________
> From: Thierry Carrez [thierry at openstack.org]
> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2017 12:58 AM
> To: openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [trove][all][tc] A proposal to rearchitect
> Trove
> Fox, Kevin M wrote:
> > [...]
> > If you build a Tessmaster clone just to do mariadb, then you share
> nothing with the other communities and have to reinvent the wheel, yet
> again. Operators load increases because the tool doesn't function like
> other tools.
> >
> > If you rely on a container orchestration engine that's already cross
> cloud that can be easily deployed by user or cloud operator, and fill in
> the gaps with what Trove wants to support, easy management of db's, you get
> to reuse a lot of the commons and the users slight increase in investment
> in dealing with the bit of extra plumbing in there allows other things to
> also be easily added to their cluster. Its very rare that a user would need
> to deploy/manage only a database. The net load on the operator decreases,
> not increases.
> I think the user-side tool could totally deploy on Kubernetes clusters
> -- if that was the only possible target that would make it a Kubernetes
> tool more than an open infrastructure tool, but that's definitely a
> possibility. I'm not sure work is needed there though, there are already
> tools (or charts) doing that ?
> For a server-side approach where you want to provide a DB-provisioning
> API, I fear that making the functionality depend on K8s would make
> TroveV2/Hoard would not only depend on Heat and Nova, but also depend on
> something that would deploy a Kubernetes cluster (Magnum?), which would
> likely hurt its adoption (and reusability in simpler setups). Since
> databases would just work perfectly well in VMs, it feels like a
> gratuitous dependency addition ?
> We generally need to be very careful about creating dependencies between
> OpenStack projects. On one side there are base services (like Keystone)
> that we said it was alright to depend on, but depending on anything else
> is likely to reduce adoption. Magnum adoption suffers from its
> dependency on Heat. If Heat starts depending on Zaqar, we make the
> problem worse. I understand it's a hard trade-off: you want to reuse
> functionality rather than reinvent it in every project... we just need
> to recognize the cost of doing that.
> --
> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
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Best regards,
Andrey Kurilin.
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