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I think total separation of projects would require much larger
discussion in community. Currently we agreed on having kolla-ansible
and kolla-k8s to be deliverables under kolla umbrella from historical
reasons. Also I don't agree that there is "little or no overlap" in
teams, in fact there is ton of overlap, just not 100%. Many
contributors (myself included) jump between deliverables today.

Having single Kolla umbrella has practical benefits which I would hate
to lose quite frankly. One of which would be that Kolla is being
evaluated by lot of different companies, and having full separation
between projects would make navigation of a landscape harder. Another
reason is single community which we value - there is no full
separation even between kolla-ansible and kolla-k8s (ansible still
generates config files for k8s for example), and further separation of
projects would hurt cooperation, and I don't think we've hit situation
when it's necessary. I'm not ready to have this discussion yet, and
I'm personally quite opposed to this.

If kolla-salt would like to be first completely separate project,
there is nothing we can (or want) to do to stop it, but I wouldn't
like to see this being pushed. Having special beast isn't great, and
moving kolla-ansible and kolla-k8s out of kolla umbrella is revolution
I don't want to rush. I'd rather figure out process to accept
kolla-salt (and following projects) to kolla umbrella and have this
discussion later, when we actually hit community scale issues.

Cheers,
Michal


On 5 January 2017 at 10:22, Sam Yaple <samuel at yaple.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Doug Hellmann <doug at doughellmann.com> wrote:
>>
>> Excerpts from Sam Yaple's message of 2017-01-05 17:02:35 +0000:
>> > On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Jeremy Stanley <fungi at yuggoth.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > On 2017-01-05 16:46:36 +0000 (+0000), Sam Yaple wrote:
>> > > [...]
>> > > > I do feel this is slightly different than whats described. Since it
>> > > > is
>> > > not
>> > > > unrelated services, but rather, for lack of a better word, competing
>> > > > services. To my knowledge infra doesn't have several service doing
>> > > > the
>> > > same
>> > > > job with different core teams (though I could be wrong).
>> > >
>> > > True, though I do find it an interesting point of view that helping
>> > > Kolla support multiple and diverse configuration management and
>> > > automation ecosystems is a "competition" rather than merely
>> > > extending the breadth of the project as a whole.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Yea I computer good, but I am no wordsmith. Perhaps 'friendly rivalry'?
>> > I
>> > expect these different deploy tools to bring new techniques that can
>> > then
>> > be reapplied to kolla-ansible and kolla-kubernetes to help out everyone.
>>
>> I'm still curious to understand why, if the teams building those
>> different things have little or no overlap in membership, they need to
>> be part of "kolla" and not just part of the larger OpenStack? Why build
>> a separate project hierarchy instead of keeping things flat?
>>
>> Do I misunderstand the situation?
>>
> You absolutely do not misunderstand the situation. It is a very valid
> question, one to which I do not have a satisfying answer. I can say that it
> has been the intention since I started work on the ansible bits of kolla to
> have separate repos for the deployment parts. That grew to having several
> different deployment tools in the future and I don't think anyone really
> stopped to think that building this hierarchy isn't necessarily the right
> thing to do. It certainly isn't a required thing to do.
>
> With the separation of ansible from the main kolla repo, the kolla repo now
> becomes a consumable much like the relationship keystone and glance.
>
> The only advantage I can really think of at the moment is to reuse the Kolla
> name and community when starting a new project, but that may not be as
> advantageous as I initially thought. By my own admission, why do these other
> projects care about a different orchestration tool.
>
> So in your estimation Doug, do you feel kolla-salt would be better served as
> a new project in it's own right? As well as future orchestration tools using
> Kolla container images?
>
> Thanks,
> SamYaple
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > SamYaple
>> >
>> > > --
>> > > Jeremy Stanley
>> > >
>> > >
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