[openstack-dev] [all][swg] per-project "Business only" moderated mailing lists

Clint Byrum clint at fewbar.com
Mon Feb 27 18:28:11 UTC 2017

Excerpts from Matthew Treinish's message of 2017-02-27 13:03:56 -0500:
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 06:18:10PM +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> > > Dean Troyer wrote:
> > >> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 3:31 AM, Clint Byrum <clint at fewbar.com> wrote:
> > >> This is not for users who only want to see some projects. That is a well
> > >> understood space and the mailman filtering does handle it. This is for
> > >> those who want to monitor the overall health of the community, address
> > >> issues with cross-project specs, or participate in so many projects it
> > >> makes little sense to spend time filtering.
> > > 
> > > Monday morning and the caffiene is just beginning to reach my brain,
> > > but this seems counter-intuitive to me.  I consider myself someone who
> > > _does_ want to keep in touch with the majority of the community, and
> > > breaking things into N additional mailing lists makes that harder, not
> > > easier.  I _do_ include core team updates, mascots, social meetings in
> > > that set of things to pay a little attention to here, especially
> > > around summit/PTG/Forum/etc times.
> +1, I'm also someone who also tries to keep an eye on a lot of projects and
> cross project work and will find this a lot more difficult.
> > > 
> > > I've seen a couple of descriptions of who this proposal is not
> > > intended to address, who exactly is expected to benefit from more
> > > mailing lists?
> > 
> > I'm not (yet) convinced that getting rid of 10% of ML messages (the ones
> > that would go to the -business lists) is worth the hassle of setting up
> > 50 new lists, have people subscribe to them, and have overworked PTL
> > moderate them...
> I agree with this. (although TBH I don't think I can be convinced) I
> also don't think in practice it will even be close to 10% of the ML traffic
> being routed to the per project lists.

To be clear, I estimate 10% of _threads_, not traffic. Most people can
mentally file a thread away by subject, even if their mail client can't.

> > 
> > Also from my experience moderating such a -business list (the
> > openstack-tc list) I can say that it takes significant effort to avoid
> > having general-interest discussions there (or to close them when they
> > start from an innocent thread). Over those 50+ -business mailing-lists
> > I'm pretty sure a few would diverge and use the convenience of isolated
> > discussions without "outsiders" potentially chiming in. And they would
> > be pretty hard to detect...
> > 
> Another similar counter example is the dedicated openstack-qa list, which has
> been dead for a long time now. This was something that had similar issues,
> although it wasn't a moderated list. What ended up happening was that the
> discussions happening there were siloed and no one ever noticed anything being
> discussed there. So things had to be cross posted to get any attention.
> Discussions also ended up being duplicated between the 2 lists (like ttx said
> he ties to avoid via active moderation). Which is why we dissolved the
> openstack-qa list and just reintegrated the discussion back into openstack-dev.

I obviously failed at stating this but I'll say it again: The business
lists would never be for discussions of anything. They're for informing
each other of facts pertaining to your project only.

I'm refraining from thinking up new solutions until we've agreed upon a
set of problems to address. Thanks for responding. :)

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