Open Stack

Thanks Clint!

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 2:41 AM, Clint Byrum <clint at fewbar.com> wrote:

> Excerpts from Shamail Tahir's message of 2017-02-27 00:44:44 -0500:
> > Hi Clint,
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 12:25 AM, Clint Byrum <clint at fewbar.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Excerpts from Matt Riedemann's message of 2017-02-26 19:48:50 -0600:
> > > > On 2/26/2017 6:52 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
> > > > > During some productive discussions in the Stewardship Working
> Group PTG
> > > > > room, the subject of the mailing list came up. The usual questions
> > > > > around whether or not we should have per-project lists came up and
> the
> > > > > reasons we don't were re-affirmed. To recap those reasons:
> > > > >
> > > > >   * Cross posting is the pits
> > > > >   * People don't always know at the beginning of a thread that a
> > > > >     discussion will need to go wider, leading to silos and
> confusion.
> > > > >
> > > > > So we turned to ways to help reduce peoples' load while reading
> e-mail,
> > > > > since many (most?) tend to opt out of reading openstack-dev.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are a number of ways that we can help, including teaching
> people
> > > > > to have more efficient workflows and use specific mail reading
> tools
> > > > > (don't worry, we're not adding an NNTP gateway.. yet). But one that
> > > > > received positive feedback from the room was to have moderated
> > > > > business-only mailing lists for each project.
> > > > >
> > > > > Basically, there are things that we _do_ know will not go wider
> when
> > > > > the thread begins. Just running through the threads on the February
> > > > > thread index, there are a few obvious classes:
> > > > >
> > > > >   * Mascots
> > > > >   * Social meetups
> > > > >   * Meeting logistics
> > > > >   * Core team membership
> > > > >
> > >
> > I'm curious as to how much of the traffic (such as the examples given)
> > generates message fatigue on new users but I do appreciate that we are
> > trying to find solutions to make it easier to enter into the mailing
> lists
> > around OpenStack without having to resort to digests.
> >
>
> I think it's worth analyzing it, if somebody has time. I do not. My wild
> ass guess is between 1 and 5 percent of all messages, but probably more
> like 5-10 percent of threads, as a lot of them are the shorter, less
> interesting threads.
>
> These seem like small numbers, but cognitive load is not linear and the
> number of threads people end up reading varies whether or not they use
> tags.
>
+1


>
> > > > There are likely others. The idea is that these messages would go
> into a
> > > > > ${project}-business at lists.openstack.org. Said list would be
> moderated
> > > by
> > > > > a team of the PTL's choosing, and we would admonish moderators to
> > > reject
> > > > > soundly any threads not obviously single project business related.
> > >
> > In this approach, we could send messages that fall within the ${
> > project}-business at lists.openstack.org to the dev ML as well.  This would
> > allow people who want only the ${project}-business news to get the
> content
> > without having to get all messages from the dev ML but at the same time
> > allow threads to be available to both subscribers (dev and
> > ${project}-business}.
> >
> > I hope we still advocate for subscribing to the openstack-dev mailing
> list
> > even if a contributor is only starting with a single project (and not
> > interested in cross-project things) because it allows for people to see
> > conversations they might have expertise in or find a new project they
> want
> > to contribute to based on learning something new about it.
> >
>
> Wow, I must have failed in my wording ,sorry about that, because you
> got it 100% backwards. The idea is that everyone stays in openstack-dev
> for _all_ discussions (single-project as well). Only the most mundane
> but necessary emails go on per-project "business lists". So there would
> be zero point in ever subscribing to the business lists without also
> subscribing to openstack-dev, and likewise, republishing business lists
> to openstack-dev would defeat the entire point.
>

Makes sense!  Sorry if I missed the intent.  In this case, I am in
agreement with the original approach as well... my (unfounded) concern was
about what it would do to openstack-dev traffic.

>
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-- 
Thanks,
Shamail Tahir
t: @ShamailXD
tz: Eastern Time
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