Open Stack

I'm -1 on deprecating Debian base image considering it's a recent
addition to Kolla and we can legitimately assume the person who
contributed it had plans to use it. I would love to get Benedikt’s
input.

Martin

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Steven Dake (stdake) <stdake at cisco.com> wrote:
> Matthias,
>
>
>
> I was asked why this is so by a different person.  The reason is determining
> majority is impossible if the electorate isn’t well defined in advance of
> the vote.  In this case, the electorate is the core team who were selected
> by their peers to serve as the leadership of the project.  We could correct
> this deficiency by holding votes across all contributors for the last year.
> The authorized votes for the PTL election [1] for Kolla Newton were 114
> people, and 69 voted.
>
>
>
> The PTL election was a major vote – not something simple like a deprecation
> vote.  Yet 60% of eligible voters voted.  Using this mechanism would result
> in an inability to obtain a majority on any issue in my opinion, would be
> more heavyweight, and require a whole lot more work, and finally slow down
> decision making processes.
>
>
>
> We vote on proposals such as this to remove logjams (if there are any to be
> removed) and we want it to be lightweight.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> -steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Steven Dake <stdake at cisco.com>
> Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 8:32 AM
>
>
> To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
> <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [vote][kolla] deprecation for debian distro
> support
>
>
>
> Mathias,
>
>
>
> Thank you for voicing your opinion (and anyone is welcome to do that in
> Kolla), however, core reviewer votes are the only binding votes in the
> decision making process.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> -steve
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Mathias Ewald <mewald at evoila.de>
> Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
> <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
> Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 7:25 AM
> To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
> <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [vote][kolla] deprecation for debian distro
> support
>
>
>
> Option 2
>
>
>
> 2016-09-20 16:07 GMT+02:00 Steven Dake (stdake) <stdake at cisco.com>:
>
> Consider this a reversal of my vote for Debian deprecation.
>
> Swapnil, thanks for bringing this fact to our attention.  It was missing
> from the original vote.  I don’t know why I didn’t bring up Benedikt’s
> contributions (which were substantial) just as Paul’s were substantial for
> Oracle Linux.  I guess the project is too busy for me to keep all the
> context in my brain.  The fact that there is no debian gate really is
> orthogonal to the discussion in my mind.  With this action we would be
> turning away a contributor who has made real contributions, and send the
> signal his work doesn’t matter or fit in with the project plans.
>
> This is totally the wrong message to send.  Further others might interpret
> such an act as a “we don’t care about anyone’s contributions” which is not
> the culture we have cultivated since origination of the project.  We have
> built a culture of “you build it, we will accept it once it passes review”.
> We want to hold on to that – it’s a really good thing for Kolla.  There have
> been rumblings in this thread and on irc of the expanding support matrix and
> our (lack) of dealing with it appropriately.  I think there are other ways
> to solve that problem without a policy hammer.
>
> I added the fedora work originally along with others who have since moved on
> to other projects.  I personally have been unsuccessful at maintaining it,
> because of the change to DNF (And PTL is a 100% time commitment without a
> whole lot of time for implementation work).  That said Fedora moves too fast
> for me personally to commit to maintenance there – so my vote there remains
> unchanged.
>
> Regards
> -steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9/20/16, 2:34 AM, "Paul Bourke" <paul.bourke at oracle.com> wrote:
>
>     If it's the case Benedict or noone else is interested in continuing
>     Debian, I can reverse my vote. Though it seems I'll be outvoted anyway
> ;)
>
>     On 20/09/16 10:21, Swapnil Kulkarni wrote:
>     > On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Paul Bourke <paul.bourke at oracle.com>
> wrote:
>     >> -1 for deprecating Debian.
>     >>
>     >> As I mentioned in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369183/, Debian
> support
>     >> was added incrementally by Benedikt Trefzer as recently as June. So
> it's
>     >> reasonable to believe there is at least one active user of Debian.
>     >>
>     >> I would like to try get some input from him on whether he's still
> using it
>     >> and would be interested in helping maintain by adding gates etc.
>     >>
>     >> On 19/09/16 18:44, Jeffrey Zhang wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>> Kolla core reviewer team,
>     >>>
>     >>> Kolla supports multiple Linux distros now, including
>     >>>
>     >>> * Ubuntu
>     >>> * CentOS
>     >>> * RHEL
>     >>> * Fedora
>     >>> * Debian
>     >>> * OracleLinux
>     >>>
>     >>> But only Ubuntu, CentOS, and OracleLinux are widely used and we have
>     >>> robust gate to ensure the quality.
>     >>>
>     >>> For Debian, Kolla hasn't any test for it and nobody reports any bug
>     >>> about it( i.e. nobody use Debian as base distro image). We (kolla
>     >>> team) also do not have enough resources to support so many Linux
>     >>> distros. I prefer to deprecate Debian support now.
>     >>>
>     >>> Please vote:
>     >>>
>     >>> 1. Kolla needs support Debian( if so, we need some guys to set up
> the
>     >>> gate and fix all the issues ASAP in O cycle)
>     >>> 2. Kolla should deprecate Debian support
>     >>>
>     >>> Voting is open for 7 days until September 27st, 2016.
>     >>>
>     >>
>     >>
> __________________________________________________________________________
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>     >
>     >
>     > +1 for #2
>     >
>     > I agree with reasoning from Paul, though Debian support was being
>     > added incrementally by Benedikt Trefzer but it has been stopped in
>     > middle and all patches in the queue were abandoned [1]
>     >
>     > [1] https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/build-debian,n,z
>     >
>     >
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