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On 05/10/2016 07:08 PM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 10/05/16 13:52 -0400, Adam Young wrote:
>> Forget package management for a moment; we can figure it out if we 
>> need to.  The question is "Why Go" which I've pondered for a while.
>>
>> If you need to write a multithreaded app, Python's GIL makes it very 
>> hard to do.  It is one reason why I pushed for HTTPD as the Keystone 
>> front end.
>>
>> Python has long held the option to optimize to native as the way to 
>> deal with performance sensitive segments.
>>
>> The question, then, is what language are you going to use to write 
>> that perf sensitive native code?
>>
>> To date, there have been two realistic options, Straight C and C++. 
>> For numeric algorithms, there is a large body written in Fortran that 
>> are often pulled over for scientific operations. The rest have been 
>> largely one-offs.
>>
>> Go and Rust are interesting in that they are both native, as opposed 
>> to runtime compiled languages like Java and Python. That makes them 
>> candidates for writing this kind of performance code.
>>
>> Rust is not there yet.  I like it, but it is tricky to learn, and the 
>> packaging and distribution is still getting in place.
>
> I disagree ;)
OK, you know I am a RUSTifarian.  But Packaging is a real issue in 
Fedora, as the Rust compiler is not packaged yet, and thus all the 
downstream.


But really I was attempting to curb my enthusiasm for Rust, as it is not 
the language under discussion here.


>
>> Go has been more aggressively integrated into the larger community. 
>> Probably the most notable and relevant for our world is the 
>> Kubernetes push toward Go.
>>
>> In the cosmic scheme of things, I see Go taking on C++ as the "native 
>> but organized" language, as contrasted with C which is native but 
>> purely procedural, and thus requires a lot more work to avoid 
>> security and project scale issues.
>
> I disagree! I don't believe Go will take on C++ but for the sake of 
> keeping this
> thread a bit sane, I won't go into details here.
This is the core of the matter:  they want to build something native, 
performance, and threadable.  The options thus far are C or C++, and I 
would expect people that got to C to continue to do so; their rationale 
still holds.  In the past, I would have suggested people use C++ for an 
Object oriented and structured code base, but Go is a viable native 
alternative unlike ones we've had in the past.

Yes, yes, Rust would also work, but they are not asking about Rust. Curb 
your enthusiasm, too, Flavio!


>
>>
>> So, I can see the desire to not start supporting C++, and to jump 
>> right to Go.  I think it is a reasonable language to investigate for 
>> this type of coding, but committing to it is less obvious than 
>> Javascript was:  with Javascript, there is no alternative for dynamic 
>> web apps, and for native, there are several.
>
> I honestly don't think the above is a good enough motivation to start 
> such a
> huge change in the community. I mean, really, I'm not opposed to Go 
> and I'm less
> opposed to Rust.
>
> As I've mentioned in other replies on this thread, there's more to it 
> than just
> the service specific needs. Infra, CI, Packagers, OPs, *community*.
>
> Flavio
>
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