[openstack-dev] [all] Proposal: Architecture Working Group
Barrett, Carol L
carol.l.barrett at intel.com
Tue Jun 21 21:24:25 UTC 2016
> On Jun 21, 2016, at 2:56 AM, Thierry Carrez <thierry at openstack.org> wrote:
> Chris Dent wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Jun 2016, Doug Wiegley wrote:
>>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 2:19 PM, Carol Barrett <carol.l.barrett at intel.com> wrote:
>>> So, it sounds like you've just described the job of the TC. And they
>>> have so far refused to define OpenStack, leading to a series of
>>> derivative decisions that seem ... inconsistent over time.
>> Thanks for writing down what I was thinking. I agree that OpenStack
>> needs some architectural vision, direction, leadership, call it what
>> you will. Every time I've voted for the _Technical_ Committee that
>> leadership is what I've wanted my vote to be creating.
> The TC is a representative body which is elected to make top-down decisions on OpenStack. However, as much as our community loves the idea of "technical leadership" and "vision", they hate the top-down decisions that come with it (especially when that top-down decision doesn't go their way). They prefer bottom-up consensus.
> So I'd argue that you need both. You need the TC whenever a hard call has to be made, but in order to minimize the number of those hard calls (and favor consensus building) you also need working groups to build a bottom-up reasonable way forward.
>>This reads very strange to me, as I'd expect a group of technical leaders to both make hard calls *and* to be able to build consensus on overall direction and vision. They're >>two sides of the same coin. What is it about our process that means the TC can't build consensus on direction, but can only impose its will? I expect you didn't mean it to >>sound that way, though. Is the workload too high on the bookkeeping to prevent the vision building? Are we too afraid of the implications of defining 'what is openstack?', >>and what it might mean to existing projects and the community? I'd think that in the long-run, it'd prevent seemingly unrelated topics from seeming to go sideways so >>often, and prevent a lot of these "hard calls".
+1. Making decisions is an element of being a leader. As a community, I believe we need this role filled.
>>But, I'm also on the fringe that is very ready to call the "big tent" a failed experiment in attempting to avoid hard calls, too.
>> It may be that an architecture working group can provide some
>> guidance that people will find useful. Against the odds I think those
>> of us in the API-WG have actually managed to have a positive
>> influence. We've not shaken things down to the foundations from which
>> a great a glorious future may be born -- a lot of compromises have
>> been made and not everybody wants to play along -- but things are
>> going in the right direction, for some people, in some projects.
>> Maybe a similar thing can happen with architecture.
> That is my hope. I see the API WG and the Architecture WG as groups of experts in specific domains preparing recommendations and long-term plans. They don't have authority to force them onto projects. Ideally projects adopt them because they see them as the right way to do things.
> And for the very few things that the TC deems necessary for OpenStack and where bottom-up didn't get it in a specific project (if all else fails), the TC can make a top-down request to a project to do things a certain way. The project can them either comply or reject the TC oversight and become an unofficial project.
>>Don't get me wrong, I welcome this initiative. I find it mildly disconcerting that the folks that I thought we were electing to fill this role will instead be filled by others, but the vacuum does need to be filled, and I thank Clint for stepping up.
+1. I appreciate Clint making this proposal. I think a cohesive, consistent architecture across OpenStack is crucial to our long term efficiency and sustaining a high rate of innovation.
> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
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