[openstack-dev] [all] re-introducing twisted to global-requirements

Jay Pipes jaypipes at gmail.com
Fri Jan 8 20:39:51 UTC 2016

On 01/08/2016 02:52 PM, Jim Rollenhagen wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 02:08:04PM -0500, Jay Pipes wrote:
>> On 01/07/2016 07:38 PM, Jim Rollenhagen wrote:
> snippity snip snip
>>> We haven't made it a dep for anything yet, only added to g-r.
>> According to Dims, not to g-r, but to u-c, right Dims? Not sure if that
>> makes functionally any difference, though (pun intended).
> Both. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/220268/
> This thread was originally about twisted, which is added to u-c with the
> introduction of mimic.

Got it, thanks.

>>> However, now that you mention that, a really ambitious goal would be to
>>> add a rabbit interface to mimic, and functionally test the API server
>>> (that it sends the right messages, etc). Another would be to mimic
>>> (Neutron, Glance) and test Ironic by itself.
>> So you would reimplement AMQP communication protocols using an in-memory
>> data store for queues. Sounds like an even greater surface area for bugs to
>> be introduced.
>>> Last, I frankly don't understand why there's
>>> such heavy opposition to the ironic team using an additional tool for
>>> testing.
>> Since you asked, I'll be blunt. This isn't a personal attack on you, Jim,
>> though.
>> a) Because it fractures the testing and QA processes used by upstream
>> contributors that work on OpenStack projects by requiring them to learn
>> another system -- and one that potentially would require them to understand
>> a whole new surface area for potential bugs
> I don't think there's a large risk of needing to dig deep into mimic,
> and especially twisted. If this does prove to be a problem, I'm happy to
> remove it. However, we can't even explore what it would be like, or how
> hard we would depend on mimic, without mimic being in g-r.

Sure, fair enough.

>> b) Because it represents yet another RAX-driven divergence in the QA space.
>> CloudCafe took essentially all of the RAX folks that were at one point
>> working on Tempest and upstream QA and siloed them into a totally different
>> organization, in true RAX fashion. Instead of pulling the OpenStack QA
>> community along together, RAX QA continues to just do its own thing and
>> there's still bitterness on the tips of tongues.
> So, this isn't trying to replace anything. This is adding a different
> way to run functional tests, that is *much* faster than standing up a
> full ironic environment. This is helpful for developers that want to
> quickly run tests before posting them to gerrit, people that need to
> test in constrained environments, etc.

I recognize it is much faster than standing up a real environment. And I 
recognize that running faster client tests is a useful thing -- as long 
as we can be confident that what is tested does not suffer from some of 
the issues I identified earlier (syncing with real API and introduction 
of greater surface area for bugs in the test platform itself).

> I'm 100% against doing things like Rackspace did with tempest and
> cloudcafe, and I wouldn't be supporting this effort if I felt it was
> similar. Here's how this went:
> * Lekha started working on OnMetal QA, with a goal of doing some amount
>    of upstream work as well.
> * She's previously worked on projects (like autoscale) that interact
>    with OpenStack APIs, and seeing the need to test without a full nova
>    environment, built mimic.
> * In talking with some of the other Ironic folks working on QA (from
>    Intel, IBM, more), she presented mimic as something that may be useful
>    for testing the client (and more). They (and I) agreed it was a neat
>    idea worth trying.
> * Jay offered to help with the global-requirements patch as it's
>    something he's done before, and did the review grinding here.
> * It finally landed, and lifeless asked me to bring up the Twisted
>    conversation on the list. Note that this is not the "is mimic
>    useful" conversation we're having now. Nobody remotely voiced
>    concerns about using a new test tool until this thread happened.
> Please do let me know if any of that seems nefarious; I hope it doesn't.

No, nothing nefarious there. Sorry for letting my personal frustrations 
bubble over into this.

I am not blocking anything from going forward and I definitely am not 
asking for a revert of any g-r patch. Nor am I trying to obstruct you in 
your governance of Ironic.

I was just raising my concerns as an OpenStack citizen and getting my 
opinion out on paper.


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