Open Stack

Thanks to Dims and Steve for bringing this up.

	It has long been my opinion that +0's are invaluable for the question asking, and for getting to understand software, and unfortunately +0's are lost in the noise. So a while ago, I posted to the ML [1] asking about making +0's more visible. I signed up to submit a request on gerrit upstream (and promptly forgot to do that). This mail thread has reminded me of that. I have now posted a request for the upstream gerrit folks to fix [2].

	I believe that people don't use +0's enough because they often get ignored. I know that one can be cynical and say it is because it gives one no credit in stackalytics; I choose not to be that person.

	I post +0's a lot. But, I find that they are often ignored. If you agree with me that +0's are useful, and could be highlighted better in the gerrit review screen, please post a comment on [2].

Thanks,

-amrith

[1] http://openstack.markmail.org/thread/nj4onttaibjmfxew
[2] https://code.google.com/p/gerrit/issues/detail?id=4050

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Riedemann [mailto:mriedem at linux.vnet.ibm.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2016 9:43 AM
> To: openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][stackalytics] Gaming the Stackalytics
> stats
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/8/2016 5:54 PM, Jay Faulkner wrote:
> > I know a lot of folks explicitly avoid a +0 vote with a comment
> > because you don't get "credit" for it in statistics. Whether or not
> > that should matter is another discussion, but there is a significant
> > disincentive to no-voting right now.
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> > Jay Faulkner
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > *From:* Dolph Mathews <dolph.mathews at gmail.com>
> > *Sent:* Friday, April 8, 2016 1:54 PM
> > *To:* OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> > *Subject:* Re: [openstack-dev] [all][stackalytics] Gaming the
> > Stackalytics stats
> >
> >
> > On Friday, April 8, 2016, John Dickinson <me at not.mn
> > <mailto:me at not.mn>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >     On 8 Apr 2016, at 13:35, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> >
> >      > On 2016-04-08 19:42:18 +0200 (+0200), Dmitry Tantsur wrote:
> >      >> There are many ways to game a simple +1 counter, such as +1'ing
> >     changes
> >      >> that already have at least 1x +2, or which already approved, or
> >     which need
> >      >> rechecking...
> >      > [...]
> >      >
> >      > The behavior which baffles me, and also seems to be on the rise
> >      > lately, is random +1 votes on changes whose commit messages
> and/or
> >      > status clearly indicate they should not merged and do not need to
> be
> >      > reviewed. I suppose that's another an easy way to avoid the
> dreaded
> >      > "disagreements" counter?
> >      > --
> >      > Jeremy Stanley
> >
> >
> >     I have been told that some OpenStack on boarding teaches new members
> >     of the community to do reviews. And they say, effectively, "muddle
> >     through as you can. You won't understand it all at first, but do
> >     your best. When you're done, add a +1 and move to the next one"
> >
> >
> > I advocate for basically this, but instead of a +1, leave a +0 and ask
> > questions. The new reviewer will inevitably learn something and the
> > author will benefit by explaining their change (teaching is the best
> > way to learn).
> >
> >
> >     I've been working to correct this when I've seen it, but +1 reviews
> >     with no comments might not be people trying to game. It might simply
> >     be people trying to get involved that don't know any better yet.
> >
> >     --John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > ____ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> > Unsubscribe:
> > OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
> >
> 
> There is also disincentive in +1ing a change that you don't understand and
> is wrong and then a core comes along and -1s it (you get dinged for the
> disagreement). And there is disincentive in -1ing a change for the wrong
> reasons (silly nits or asking questions for understanding). I ask a lot of
> questions in a lot of changes and I don't vote on those because it would
> be inappropriate.
> 
> I also notice when "newcomers" are asking good questions for understanding
> and not voting on them, it shows me they are trying to learn and are
> getting invested in the project, not just trying to pad stats. Those are
> the people we look to mentor into bigger roles in the project team, be
> that working on subteams or eventually looking at for the core reviewer
> team.
> 
> --
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Matt Riedemann
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________________________
> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> Unsubscribe: OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev