Open Stack

On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 11:05:29AM EDT, Kyle Mestery wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Sean M. Collins <sean at coreitpro.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:02:24AM EDT, Ihar Hrachyshka wrote:
> > > - more changes with less infra tinkering! neutron devs should not need
> > to go to infra projects so often to make an impact;
> > > -- make our little neat DevStack plugin used for qos and sr-iov only a
> > huge pile of bash code that is currently stored in DevStack and is proudly
> > called neutron-legacy now; and make the latter obsolete and eventually
> > removed from DevStack;
> >
> > We may need to discuss this. I am currently doing a refactor of the
> > Neutron DevStack integration in
> >
> > https://review.openstack.org/168438
> >
> > If I understand your message correctly, I disagree that we should be
> > moving all the DevStack support for Neutron out of DevStack and making
> > it a plugin. All that does is move the mess from one corner of the room,
> > to another corner.
> >
> >
> I would actually be in favor of cleaning up the mess AND moving it into
> neutron. If it's in Neutron, we control our own destiny with regards to
> landing patches which affect DevStack and ultimately our gate jobs. To me,
> that's a huge win-win. Thus, cleanup first, then move to Neutron.

Frankly we have a bad track record in DevStack, if we are to make an
argument about controlling our own destiny. Neutron-lib is in a sad
state of affairs because we haven't had the discipline to keep things
simple.

In fact, I think the whole genesis of the Neutron plugin for DevStack is
a great example of how controlling our own destiny has started to grow
the mess. Yes, we needed it to gate the QoS code. But now things are
starting to get added.

https://github.com/openstack/neutron/commit/bd07b74045d93c46483aa261b8686072d9b448e8

The trend is now that people are going to throw things into the Neutron
DevStack plugin to get their doo-dad up and running, because making a
new repo is harder than creating a patch (which maybe shows are repo
creation process needs streamlining). I was originally for making
Neutron DevStack plugins that exist in their own repos, instead of
putting them in the Neutron tree. At least that makes things small,
manageable, and straight forward. Yes, it makes for more plugin lines in
your DevStack configuration, but at least you know what each one does,
instead of being an agglomeration.

If we are not careful, the Neutron DevStack plugin will grow into the big
mess that neutron-legacy is.

Finally, Look at how many configuration knobs we have, and how there is
a tendency to introduce new ones, instead of using local.conf to inject
configuration into Neutron and the associated components. This ends up
making it very complicated for someone to actually run Neutron in their
DevStack, and I think a lot of people would give up and just run
Nova-Network, which I will note is *still the default*.

We need to keep our ties strong with other projects, and improve them in
some cases. I think culturally, if we start trying to move things into
our corner of the sandbox because working with other groups is hard, we
send bad signals to others. This will eventually come back to bite us.

/rant

-- 
Sean M. Collins