Open Stack

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Hellmann [mailto:doug at doughellmann.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 3:07 PM
> To: openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Do we need release announcements for all
> the things?
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015, at 06:57 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> > Clint Byrum wrote:
> > > I spend a not-insignificant amount of time deciding which threads to
> > > read and which to fully ignore each day, so extra threads mean extra
> > > work, even with a streamlined workflow of single-key-press-per-thread.
> > >
> > > So I'm wondering what people are getting from these announcements
> > > being on the discussion list. I feel like they'd be better off in a
> > > weekly digest, on a web page somewhere, or perhaps with a tag that
> > > could be filtered out for those that don't benefit from them.
> >
> > The first value of a release announcement is (obviously) to let people
> > know something was released. There is a bit of a paradox there with
> > some announcements being posted to openstack-announce (in theory
> > low-traffic and high-attention), and some announcements being posted
> > to openstack-dev (high-traffic and medium-attention). Where is the
> > line drawn ?
> >
> > The second value of a release announcement is the thread it creates in
> > case immediate issues are spotted. I kind of like that some
> > python-*client release announcements are followed-up by a "this broke
> > the world" thread, all in a single convenient package. Delaying
> > announcements defeats that purpose.
> >
> > We need to adapt our current (restricted) usage of openstack-announce
> > to a big-tent less-hierarchical future anyway: if we continue to split
> > announcements, which projects are deemed "important enough" to be
> > granted openstack-announce access ?
> >
> > Personally in the future I'm not opposed to allowing any "openstack"
> > project (big-tent definition) to post to openstack-announce (ideally
> > in a standard / autogenerated format) with reply-to set to openstack-dev.
> > We could use a separate list, but then release and OSSA announcements
> > are the only thing we use -announce for currently, so I'm not sure
> > it's worth it.
> >
> > So I'm +1 on using a specific list (and setting reply-to to -dev), and
> > I'm suggesting openstack-announce should be reused to avoid creating
> > two classes of deliverables (-announce worthy and not).
> 
> We had complaints in the past when we *didn't* send release
> announcements because people were then unaware of why a new release
> might be causing changes in behavior, so we built a bunch of tools to make it
> easy to create uniform and informative release note emails containing the
> level of detail people wanted. So far those are only being used by Oslo, but
> we're moving the scripts to the release-tools repo to make them easy for all
> library maintainers to use.
> 
> These announcements are primarily for our developer community and the
> folks at the distros who need to know to package the new versions. Are we
> going to start having non-dev folks who subscribe to the announce list
> complain about the release announcements for libraries, then? Are enough
> developers subscribed to the announce list that they will see the release
> messages to meet the original needs we were trying to meet?
> 
> >
> > Posting on -dev with a subject prefix would only marginally improve
> > the situation (release announcements are already pretty easy to spot
> > and manually filter out), so I'm +0 on that.
> >
> > Weekly posts or ratelimiting would imho remove 99% of the interest of
> > release announcements, so I'm -1 on that solution.
> >
> > --
> > Thierry Carrez (ttx)
> >
> >

I do agree partially with Doug and Thierry here.

The various lib releases do belong to the dev list and should not be rate limited nor combined together. Lib release <-> something breaking is very much dev thing and faster we have attention on that the better. As Thierry mentioned the format is already easy to filter out if not wanted. It's great that the tools to do this will become more available to get single format for that.

This is one of the benefits/caveats of having a single dev mailing list. There is lots of noise for everyone, but this particular noise is one of those I think we should not get rid of.

- Erno

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