Open Stack

CLIs should get versioned like any other contract and allow for change (not be restricted in stone to what's already out there{).  With Solum, we have less to worry about as we are at the early phases of adoption and growth.  To someone's earlier point, you can  have —non-interactive flags which allows shell scripting, or —interactive which provides a more positive human interaction experience (defaulting either way, but my $0.2 is you default to human interaction, is even the shell scripters start there to learn/test the capabilities manually before scripting.  I think projects can solve for both, it just takes a willingness to do so.  To the extent that can be tackled in the new unified OpenStack client, that would be fantastic!

-Keith

From: <Fox>, Kevin M <Kevin.Fox at pnnl.gov<mailto:Kevin.Fox at pnnl.gov>>
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 7:05 PM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Solum] Should logs be deleted when we delete an app?

It sounded like the push was, cli's for interactive, if you want to script, use python. My assertion was, developers script in python, users/admins script in shell usually. Not arguing against making the cli user experience more pleasant for interactive users, but realize shell is the way most user/admins will script since that is what they are accustomed to.

Now, unfortunately there's probably a lot of scripts out there today, and if you make things more interactive, you risk breaking them horribly if you start requiring them to be default interactive  :/ Thats not an easily solved problem. Best way I can think of is fix it in the new unified openstack client, and give the interactive binary a new name to run interactive mode. Shell scripts can continue to use the existing stuff without fear of breakage.

Thanks,
Kevin
________________________________
From: Keith Bray [keith.bray at RACKSPACE.COM<mailto:keith.bray at RACKSPACE.COM>]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 4:47 PM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Solum] Should logs be deleted when we delete an app?

Kevin, I agree with your break out, except I think you are missing a 3rd category.   100's of public cloud support specialists, developers, and product management folks use the CLI without scripts every day in supporting the OpenStack services and customers.  Using and interacting with the CLI is how folks learn the OpenStack services. The CLIs can be painful for those users when they actually want to learn the service, not shell script around it.

-Keith

From: <Fox>, Kevin M <Kevin.Fox at pnnl.gov<mailto:Kevin.Fox at pnnl.gov>>
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 6:28 PM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Solum] Should logs be deleted when we delete an app?

-1. There are developers and there are users/admins. The former tend to write in python. the latter, shell.

Thanks,
Kevin
________________________________
From: Keith Bray [keith.bray at RACKSPACE.COM<mailto:keith.bray at RACKSPACE.COM>]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 2:42 PM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Solum] Should logs be deleted when we delete an app?

Isn't that what the SDK is for?   To chip in with a Product Management type hat on, I'd think the CLI should be primarily focused on user experience interaction, and the SDK should be primarily targeted for developer automation needs around programmatically interacting with the service.   So, I would argue that the target market for the CLI should not be the developer who wants to script.

-Keith

From: Adrian Otto <adrian.otto at rackspace.com<mailto:adrian.otto at rackspace.com>>
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 12:24 PM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Solum] Should logs be deleted when we delete an app?

Interactive choices like that one can make it more confusing for developers who want to script with the CLI. My preference would be to label the app delete help text to clearly indicate that it deletes logs
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