Open Stack

Hong Bin,

I have some online discussion with Peng, seems hyper is now integrating
with Kubernetes and also have plan integrate with mesos for scheduling.
Once mesos integration finished, we can treat mesos+hyper as another kind
of bay.

Thanks

2015-07-19 4:15 GMT+08:00 Hongbin Lu <hongbin.lu at huawei.com>:

>  Peng,
>
>
>
> Several questions Here. You mentioned that HyperStack is a single big
> “bay”. Then, who is doing the multi-host scheduling, Hyper or something
> else? Were you suggesting to integrate Hyper with Magnum directly? Or you
> were suggesting to integrate Hyper with Magnum indirectly (i.e. through
> k8s, mesos and/or Nova)?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Hongbin
>
>
>
> *From:* Peng Zhao [mailto:peng at hyper.sh]
> *Sent:* July-17-15 12:34 PM
> *To:* OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> *Subject:* Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run on metal
> with Hyper
>
>
>
> Hi, Adrian, Jay and all,
>
>
>
> There could be a much longer version of this, but let me try to explain in
> a minimalist way.
>
>
>
> Bay currently has two modes: VM-based, BM-based. In both cases, Bay helps
> to isolate different tenants' containers. In other words, bay is
> single-tenancy. For BM-based bay, the single tenancy is a worthy tradeoff,
> given the performance merits of LXC vs VM. However, for a VM-based bay,
> there is no performance gain, but single tenancy seems a must, due to the
> lack of isolation in container. Hyper, as a hypervisor-based substitute for
> container, brings the much-needed isolation, and therefore enables
> multi-tenancy. In HyperStack, we don't really need Ironic to provision
> multiple Hyper bays. On the other hand,  the entire HyperStack cluster is a
> single big "bay". Pretty similar to how Nova works.
>
>
>
> Also, HyperStack is able to leverage Cinder, Neutron for SDS/SDN
> functionality. So when someone submits a Docker Compose app, HyperStack
> would launch HyperVMs and call Cinder/Neutron to setup the volumes and
> network. The architecture is quite simple.
>
>
>
> Here are a blog I'd like to recommend:
> https://hyper.sh/blog/post/2015/06/29/docker-hyper-and-the-end-of-guest-os.html
>
>
>
> Let me know your questions.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peng
>
>
>
> ------------------ Original ------------------
>
> *From: * "Adrian Otto"<adrian.otto at rackspace.com>;
>
> *Date: * Thu, Jul 16, 2015 11:02 PM
>
> *To: * "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"<
> openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>;
>
> *Subject: * Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run
> onmetalwith Hyper
>
>
>
> Jay,
>
>
>
> Hyper is a substitute for a Docker host, so I expect it could work equally
> well for all of the current bay types. Hyper’s idea of a “pod” and a
> Kubernetes “pod” are similar, but different. I’m not yet convinced that
> integrating Hyper host creation direct with Magnum (and completely
> bypassing nova) is a good idea. It probably makes more sense to implement
> use nova with the ironic dirt driver to provision Hyper hosts so we can use
> those as substitutes for Bay nodes in our various Bay types. This would fit
> in the place were we use Fedora Atomic today. We could still rely on nova
> to do all of the machine instance management and accounting like we do
> today, but produce bays that use Hyper instead of a Docker host. Everywhere
> we currently offer CoreOS as an option we could also offer Hyper as an
> alternative, with some caveats.
>
>
>
> There may be some caveats/drawbacks to consider before committing to a
> Hyper integration. I’ll be asking those of Peng also on this thread, so
> keep an eye out.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
>  On Jul 16, 2015, at 3:23 AM, Jay Lau <jay.lau.513 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Peng, then I can see two integration points for Magnum and Hyper:
>
> 1) Once Hyper and k8s integration finished, we can deploy k8s in two mode:
> docker and hyper mode, the end user can select which mode they want to use.
> For such case, we do not need to create a new bay but may need some
> enhancement for current k8s bay
>
> 2) After mesos and hyper integration,  we can treat mesos and hyper as a
> new bay to magnum. Just like what we are doing now for mesos+marathon.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> 2015-07-16 17:38 GMT+08:00 Peng Zhao <peng at hyper.sh>:
>
> Hi Jay,
>
>
>
> Yes, we are working with the community to integrate Hyper with Mesos and
> K8S. Since Hyper uses Pod as the default job unit, it is quite easy to
> integrate with K8S. Mesos takes a bit more efforts, but still
> straightforward.
>
>
>
> We expect to finish both integration in v0.4 early August.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Peng
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Hyper - Make VM run like Container
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Jay Lau <jay.lau.513 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>    Hi Peng,
>
>   Just want to get more for Hyper. If we create a hyper bay, then can I
> set up multiple hosts in a hyper bay? If so, who will do the scheduling,
> does mesos or some others integrate with hyper?
>
> I did not find much info for hyper cluster management.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> 2015-07-16 9:54 GMT+08:00 Peng Zhao <peng at hyper.sh>:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------ Original ------------------
>
> *From: * “Adrian Otto”<adrian.otto at rackspace.com>;
>
> *Date: * Wed, Jul 15, 2015 02:31 AM
>
> *To: * “OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)“<
> openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>;
>
>
>
> *Subject: * Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run onmetal
> withHyper
>
>
>
> Peng,
>
>
>
>  On Jul 13, 2015, at 8:37 PM, Peng Zhao <peng at hyper.sh> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Adrian!
>
>
>
> Hi, all,
>
>
>
> Let me recap what is hyper and the idea of hyperstack.
>
>
>
> Hyper is a single-host runtime engine. Technically,
>
> Docker = LXC + AUFS
>
> Hyper = Hypervisor + AUFS
>
> where AUFS is the Docker image.
>
>
>
> I do not understand the last line above. My understanding is that AUFS ==
> UnionFS, which is used to implement a storage driver for Docker. Others
> exist for btrfs, and devicemapper. You select which one you want by setting
> an option like this:
>
>
>
> DOCKEROPTS=”-s devicemapper”
>
>
>
> Are you trying to say that with Hyper, AUFS is used to provide layered
> Docker image capability that are shared by multiple hypervisor guests?
>
>
>
>  Peng >>> Yes, AUFS implies the Docker images here.
>
>
>
> My guess is that you are trying to articulate that a host running Hyper is
> a 1:1 substitute for a host running Docker, and will respond using the
> Docker remote API. This would result in containers running on the same host
> that have a superior security isolation than they would if LXC was used as
> the backend to Docker. Is this correct?
>
>
>
> Peng>>> Exactly
>
>
>
>   Due to the shared-kernel nature of LXC, Docker lacks of the necessary
> isolation in a multi-tenant CaaS platform, and this is what
> Hyper/hypervisor is good at.
>
>
>
> And because of this, most CaaS today run on top of IaaS:
> https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/55545e127c7cbe0ec5b82f2b/388x275/e286dea1266b46c1999d566b0f9e326b/iaas.png
>
> Hyper enables the native, secure, bare-metal CaaS
> https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/55545e127c7cbe0ec5b82f2b/395x244/828ad577dafb3f357e95899e962651b2/caas.png
>
>
>
> From the tech stack perspective, Hyperstack turns Magnum o run in parallel
> with Nova, not running on atop.
>
>
>
> For this to work, we’d expect to get a compute host from Heat, so if the
> bay type were set to “hyper”, we’d need to use a template that can produce
> a compute host running Hyper. How would that host be produced, if we do not
> get it from nova? Might it make more sense to make a dirt driver for nova
> that could produce a Hyper guest on a host already running the nova-compute
> agent? That way Magnum would not need to re-create any of Nova’s
> functionality in order to produce nova instances of type “hyper”.
>
>
>
> Peng >>> We don’t have to get the physical host from nova. Let’s say
>
>    OpenStack = Nova+Cinder+Neutron+Bare-metal+KVM, so “AWS-like IaaS for
> everyone else”
>
>    HyperStack= Magnum+Cinder+Neutron+Bare-metal+Hyper, then “Google-like
> CaaS for everyone else”
>
>
>
> Ideally, customers should deploy a single OpenStack cluster, with both
> nova/kvm and magnum/hyper. I’m looking for a solution to make nova/magnum
> co-exist.
>
>
>
> Is Hyper compatible with libvirt?
>
>
>
> Peng>>> We are working on the libvirt integration, expect in v0.5
>
>
>
>
>
> Can Hyper support nested Docker containers within the Hyper guest?
>
>
>
> Peng>>> Docker in Docker? In a HyperVM instance, there is no docker
> daemon, cgroup and namespace (except MNT for pod). VM serves the purpose of
> isolation. We plan to support cgroup and namespace, so you can control
> whether multiple containers in a pod share the same namespace, or
> completely isolated. But in either case, no docker daemon is present.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Adrian Otto
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Peng
>
>
>
> ------------------ Original ------------------
>
> *From: * “Adrian Otto”<adrian.otto at rackspace.com>;
>
> *Date: * Tue, Jul 14, 2015 07:18 AM
>
> *To: * “OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)“<
> openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>;
>
>
>
> *Subject: * Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum][bp] Power Magnum to run on metal
> withHyper
>
>
>
> Team,
>
>
>
> I woud like to ask for your input about adding support for Hyper in Magnum:
>
>
>
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/hyperstack
>
>
>
> We touched on this in our last team meeting, and it was apparent that
> achieving a higher level of understanding of the technology before weighing
> in about the directional approval of this blueprint. Peng Zhao and Xu Wang
> have graciously agreed to respond to this thread to address questions about
> how the technology works, and how it could be integrated with Magnum.
>
>
>
> Please take a moment to review the blueprint, and ask your questions here
> on this thread.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Adrian Otto
>
>
>
>  On Jul 2, 2015, at 8:48 PM, Peng Zhao <peng at hyper.sh> wrote:
>
>
>
> Here is the bp of Magnum+Hyper+Metal integration:
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/magnum/+spec/hyperstack
>
>
>
> Wanted to hear more thoughts and kickstart some brainstorming.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peng
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Hyper - Make VM run like Container
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
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>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jay Lau (Guangya Liu)
>
>
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> --
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jay Lau (Guangya Liu)
>
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>


-- 
Thanks,

Jay Lau (Guangya Liu)
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