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I totally agree with Andrew.

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015, Andrew Woodward <xarses at gmail.com> wrote:

> Either we do specs, or we don't. Either every one has to land their specs
> before code or no one does. Its that simple.
>
> What should be sorted out? It is unavoidable that people will comment and
>> ask questions during development cycle.
>> I am not sure that merging spec as early as possible, and than add
>> comments and different fixes is good strategy.
>> On the other hand we need to eliminate risks.. but how merging spec can
>> help?
>
>
> The spec defining what has been committed already needs to be merged, and
> we can open another review to modify the spec into another direction if
> necessary.
>
> We can spend several month on polishing the spec, will it help
>> to release feature in time? I don't think so.
>
>
> The spec doesn't have to be perfect, but it needs to be merged prior to
> code describing it.
>
> I think the spec should be a synchronization point, where different
>> teams can discuss details and make sure that everything is correct.
>> The spec should represent the current state of the code which is
>> merged and which is going to be merged.
>
>
> This isn't the intent of the spec, its to document the extent, general
> direction, and impact of a feature. As a side effect, well defined specs
> can also serve as documentation for the feature. While the discussion is
> common on the spec, this should be done on a merged spec.
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 2:45 AM, Evgeniy L <eli at mirantis.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','eli at mirantis.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> +1 to Dmitriy's comment.
>> We can spend several month on polishing the spec, will it help
>> to release feature in time? I don't think so.
>> Also with your suggestion we'll get a lot of patches over 2 thousands
>> lines of code, after spec is merged. Huge patches reduce quality,
>> because it's too hard to review, also such patches much harder
>> to get merged.
>> I think the spec should be a synchronization point, where different
>> teams can discuss details and make sure that everything is correct.
>> The spec should represent the current state of the code which is
>> merged and which is going to be merged.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 1:03 AM, Dmitriy Shulyak <dshulyak at mirantis.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dshulyak at mirantis.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew,
>>> What should be sorted out? It is unavoidable that people will comment
>>> and ask questions during development cycle.
>>> I am not sure that merging spec as early as possible, and than add
>>> comments and different fixes is good strategy.
>>> On the other hand we need to eliminate risks.. but how merging spec can
>>> help?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:49 PM, Andrew Woodward <xarses at gmail.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','xarses at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Vova,
>>>>
>>>> Its great to see so much progress on this, however it appears that we
>>>> have started merging code prior to the spec landing [0] lets get it
>>>> sorted ASAP.
>>>>
>>>> [0] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113491/
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Vladimir Kuklin <vkuklin at mirantis.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vkuklin at mirantis.com');>> wrote:
>>>> > Hi, Fuelers and Stackers
>>>> >
>>>> > I am glad to announce that we merged initial support for granular
>>>> deployment
>>>> > feature which is described here:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/granular-deployment-based-on-tasks
>>>> >
>>>> > This is an important milestone for our overall deployment and
>>>> operations
>>>> > architecture as well as it is going to significantly improve our
>>>> testing and
>>>> > engineering process.
>>>> >
>>>> > Starting from now we can start merging code for:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/fuel-library-modularization
>>>> >
>>>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/fuel-library-modular-testing
>>>> >
>>>> > We are still working on documentation and QA stuff, but it should be
>>>> pretty
>>>> > simple for you to start trying it out. We would really appreciate your
>>>> > feedback.
>>>> >
>>>> > Existing issues are the following:
>>>> >
>>>> > 1) pre and post deployment hooks are still out of the scope of main
>>>> > deployment graph
>>>> > 2) there is currently only puppet task provider working reliably
>>>> > 3) no developer published documentation
>>>> > 4) acyclic graph testing not injected into CI
>>>> > 5) there is currently no opportunity to execute particular task -
>>>> only the
>>>> > whole deployment (code is being reviewed right now)
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Yours Faithfully,
>>>> > Vladimir Kuklin,
>>>> > Fuel Library Tech Lead,
>>>> > Mirantis, Inc.
>>>> > +7 (495) 640-49-04
>>>> > +7 (926) 702-39-68
>>>> > Skype kuklinvv
>>>> > 45bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
>>>> > Moscow, Russia,
>>>> > www.mirantis.com
>>>> > www.mirantis.ru
>>>> > vkuklin at mirantis.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vkuklin at mirantis.com');>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>>> > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>>> > Unsubscribe:
>>>> OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>>>> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew
>>>> Mirantis
>>>> Ceph community
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Vladimir Kuklin <vkuklin at mirantis.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vkuklin at mirantis.com');>> wrote:
>>>> > Hi, Fuelers and Stackers
>>>> >
>>>> > I am glad to announce that we merged initial support for granular
>>>> deployment
>>>> > feature which is described here:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/granular-deployment-based-on-tasks
>>>> >
>>>> > This is an important milestone for our overall deployment and
>>>> operations
>>>> > architecture as well as it is going to significantly improve our
>>>> testing and
>>>> > engineering process.
>>>> >
>>>> > Starting from now we can start merging code for:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/fuel-library-modularization
>>>> >
>>>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/fuel-library-modular-testing
>>>> >
>>>> > We are still working on documentation and QA stuff, but it should be
>>>> pretty
>>>> > simple for you to start trying it out. We would really appreciate your
>>>> > feedback.
>>>> >
>>>> > Existing issues are the following:
>>>> >
>>>> > 1) pre and post deployment hooks are still out of the scope of main
>>>> > deployment graph
>>>> > 2) there is currently only puppet task provider working reliably
>>>> > 3) no developer published documentation
>>>> > 4) acyclic graph testing not injected into CI
>>>> > 5) there is currently no opportunity to execute particular task -
>>>> only the
>>>> > whole deployment (code is being reviewed right now)
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Yours Faithfully,
>>>> > Vladimir Kuklin,
>>>> > Fuel Library Tech Lead,
>>>> > Mirantis, Inc.
>>>> > +7 (495) 640-49-04
>>>> > +7 (926) 702-39-68
>>>> > Skype kuklinvv
>>>> > 45bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
>>>> > Moscow, Russia,
>>>> > www.mirantis.com
>>>> > www.mirantis.ru
>>>> > vkuklin at mirantis.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vkuklin at mirantis.com');>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>>> > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>>> > Unsubscribe:
>>>> OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>>>> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew
>>>> Mirantis
>>>> Fuel community ambassador
>>>> Ceph community
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>> OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________________
>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>> Unsubscribe:
>> OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Andrew
> Mirantis
> Fuel community ambassador
> Ceph community
>


-- 
Andrey Danin
adanin at mirantis.com
skype: gcon.monolake
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