Open Stack

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 10:31:19 PM Alan Kavanagh wrote:
> Steven
> I have to ask what is the motivation and benefits we get from integrating
> Kubernetes into Openstack? Would be really useful if you can elaborate and
> outline some use cases and benefits Openstack and Kubernetes can gain.

I've no idea what Steven's motivation is, but here's my reasoning for going 
down a similar path:

OpenStack deployment is basically two types of software:
1. "Control" jobs, various API servers, etc that are basically just regular 
python wsgi apps.
2. Compute/network node agents that run under hypervisors, configure host 
networking, etc.

The 2nd group probably wants to run on baremetal and is mostly identical on 
all such machines, but the 1st group wants higher level PaaS type things.

In particular, for the control jobs you want:

- Something to deploy the code (docker / distro packages / pip install / etc)
- Something to choose where to deploy
- Something to respond to machine outages / autoscaling and re-deploy as 
necessary

These last few don't have strong existing options within OpenStack yet (as far 
as I'm aware).  Having explored a few different approaches recently, kubernetes 
is certainly not the only option - but is a reasonable contender here.


So: I certainly don't see kubernetes as competing with anything in OpenStack - 
but as filling a gap in job management with something that has a fairly 
lightweight config syntax and is relatively simple to deploy on VMs or 
baremetal.  I also think the phrase "integrating kubernetes into OpenStack" is 
overstating the task at hand.

The primary downside I've discovered so far seems to be that kubernetes is 
very young and still has an awkward cli, a few easy to encounter bugs, etc.

 - Gus

> From: Steven Dake [mailto:sdake at redhat.com]
> Sent: September-24-14 7:41 PM
> To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tripleo] New Project -> Kolla: Deploy and
> Manage OpenStack using Kubernetes and Docker
> 
> On 09/24/2014 10:12 AM, Joshua Harlow wrote:
> Sounds like an interesting project/goal and will be interesting to see where
> this goes.
> 
> A few questions/comments:
> 
> How much golang will people be exposed to with this addition?
> 
> Joshua,
> 
> I expect very little.  We intend to use Kubernetes as an upstream project,
> rather then something we contribute to directly.
> 
> 
> Seeing that this could be the first 'go' using project it will be
> interesting to see where this goes (since afaik none of the infra support
> exists, and people aren't likely to familiar with go vs python in the
> openstack community overall).
> 
> What's your thoughts on how this will affect the existing openstack
> container effort?
> 
> I don't think it will have any impact on the existing Magnum project.  At
> some point if Magnum implements scheduling of docker containers, we may add
> support for Magnum in addition to Kubernetes, but it is impossible to tell
> at this point.  I don't want to derail either project by trying to force
> them together unnaturally so early.
> 
> 
> I see that kubernetes isn't exactly a small project either (~90k LOC, for
> those who use these types of metrics), so I wonder how that will affect
> people getting involved here, aka, who has the resources/operators/other...
> available to actually setup/deploy/run kubernetes, when operators are
> likely still just struggling to run openstack itself (at least operators
> are getting used to the openstack warts, a new set of kubernetes warts
> could not be so helpful).
> 
> Yup it is fairly large in size.  Time will tell if this approach will work.
> 
> This is an experiment as Robert and others on the thread have pointed out
> :).
> 
> Regards
> -steve
> 
> 
> On Sep 23, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Steven Dake
> <sdake at redhat.com<mailto:sdake at redhat.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm pleased to announce the development of a new project Kolla which is
> Greek for glue :). Kolla has a goal of providing an implementation that
> deploys OpenStack using Kubernetes and Docker. This project will begin as a
> StackForge project separate from the TripleO/Deployment program code base.
> Our long term goal is to merge into the TripleO/Deployment program rather
> then create a new program.
> 
> 
> 
> Docker is a container technology for delivering hermetically sealed
> applications and has about 620 technical contributors [1]. We intend to
> produce docker images for a variety of platforms beginning with Fedora 20.
> We are completely open to any distro support, so if folks want to add new
> Linux distribution to Kolla please feel free to submit patches :)
> 
> 
> 
> Kubernetes at the most basic level is a Docker scheduler produced by and
> used within Google [2]. Kubernetes has in excess of 100 technical
> contributors. Kubernetes is more then just a scheduler, it provides
> additional functionality such as load balancing and scaling and has a
> significant roadmap.
> 
> 
> The #tripleo channel on Freenode will be used for Kolla developer and user
> communication. Even though we plan to become part of the Deployment program
> long term, as we experiment we believe it is best to hold a separate weekly
> one hour IRC meeting on Mondays at 2000 UTC in #openstack-meeting [3].
> 
> 
> This project has been discussed with the current TripleO PTL (Robert
> Collins) and he seemed very supportive and agreed with the organization of
> the project outlined above. James Slagle, a TripleO core developer, has
> kindly offered to liase between Kolla and the broader TripleO community.
> 
> 
> 
> I personally feel it is necessary to start from a nearly empty repository
> when kicking off a new project. As a result, there is limited code in the
> repository [4] at this time. I suspect folks will start cranking out a
> kick-ass implementation once the Kolla/Stackforge integration support is
> reviewed by the infra team [5].
> 
> 
> 
> The initial core team is composed of Steven Dake, Ryan Hallisey, James
> Lebocki, Jeff Peeler, James Slagle, Lars Kellogg-Sedman, and David Vossel.
> The core team will be reviewed every 6 weeks to add fresh developers.
> 
> 
> Please join the core team in designing and inventing this rockin' new
> technology!
> 
> 
> Regards
> -steve
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> 
> 
> [1] https://github.com/docker/docker [2]
> https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/kubernetes
> 
> [3] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Kolla [4]
> https://github.com/jlabocki/superhappyfunshow [5]
> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122972/
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
 - Gus