Open Stack

Sorry missed the -dev list on my response.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [openstack-tc] [openstack-dev] use of the word certified
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 15:45:02 -0400
From: Anita Kuno <anteaya at anteaya.info>
To: openstack-tc at lists.openstack.org

On 06/06/2014 03:29 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Anita Kuno <anteaya at anteaya.info> wrote:
>> So there are certain words that mean certain things, most don't, some do.
>>
>> If words that mean certain things are used then some folks start using
>> the word and have expectations around the word and the OpenStack
>> Technical Committee and other OpenStack programs find themselves on the
>> hook for behaviours that they didn't agree to.
>>
>> Currently the word under discussion is "certified" and its derivatives:
>> certification, certifying, and others with root word "certificate".
>>
>> This came to my attention at the summit with a cinder summit session
>> with the one of the cerficiate words in the title. I had thought my
>> point had been made but it appears that there needs to be more
>> discussion on this. So let's discuss.
>>
>> Let's start with the definition of certify:
>> cer·ti·fy
>> verb (used with object), cer·ti·fied, cer·ti·fy·ing.
>> 1. to attest as certain; give reliable information of; confirm: He
>> certified the truth of his claim.
>> 2. to testify to or vouch for in writing: The medical examiner will
>> certify his findings to the court.
>> 3. to guarantee; endorse reliably: to certify a document with an
>> official seal.
>> 4. to guarantee (a check) by writing on its face that the account
>> against which it is drawn has sufficient funds to pay it.
>> 5. to award a certificate to (a person) attesting to the completion of a
>> course of study or the passing of a qualifying examination.
>> Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/certify
>>
>> The issue I have with the word certify is that it requires someone or a
>> group of someones to attest to something. The thing attested to is only
>> as credible as the someone or the group of someones doing the attesting.
>> We have no process, nor do I feel we want to have a process for
>> evaluating the reliability of the somones or groups of someones doing
>> the attesting.
>>
>> I think that having testing in place in line with other programs testing
>> of patches (third party ci) in cinder should be sufficient to address
>> the underlying concern, namely reliability of opensource hooks to
>> proprietary code and/or hardware. I would like the use of the word
>> "certificate" and all its roots to no longer be used in OpenStack
>> programs with regard to testing. This won't happen until we get some
>> discussion and agreement on this, which I would like to have.
>>
>> Thank you for your participation,
>> Anita.
> 
> I didn't see that summit session. Is someone claiming that a driver is
> being certified? Or asking that someone certify a driver?
> 
> Doug
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> OpenStack-TC at lists.openstack.org
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> 
The title of this etherpad was the title of the summit session:
https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-cinder-3rd-party-cert-and-verification
http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/56eae44976e986f39c858d784344c7d0#.U5IaFnKZg5k

As you can see there has been some editing on the etherpad of the use of
the word certified, so I had thought we had an agreement - the cinder
devs and I, but was just told in cinder channel that the intent is to
continue to use the word unless told not to.

I had asked in cinder channel for the commit message of this patch to be
edited: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84244/ and I was disagreed
with, so I thought I would bring my concerns to a wider audience.

Unfortunately #openstack-cinder is not a logged channel so I can't point
you to a public url for you to read channel logs (a link to the channel
logs would go here, if there was one).

Thanks,
Anita.