Open Stack

On Jul 24, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Robert Collins <robertc at robertcollins.net> wrote:

> On 25 July 2014 08:01, Sean Dague <sean at dague.net> wrote:
> 
>>> I'd like us to think about whether they is anything we can do to make
>>> life easier in these kind of hard debugging scenarios where the regular
>>> logs are not sufficient.
>> 
>> Agreed. Honestly, though we do also need to figure out first fail
>> detection on our logs as well. Because realistically if we can't debug
>> failures from those, then I really don't understand how we're ever going
>> to expect large users to.
> 
> 
> I'm so glad you said that :). In conversations with our users, and
> existing large deployers of Openstack, one thing has come through very
> consistently: our default logs are insufficient.
> 
> We had an extensive discussion about this in the TripleO mid-cycle
> meetup, and I think we reached broad consensus on the following:
> - the defaults should be what folk are running in production
> - we don't want to lead on changing defaults - its a big enough thing
> we want to drive the discussion but not workaround it by changing our
> defaults
> - large clouds are *today* running debug (with a few tweaks to remove
> the most egregious log spammers and known security issues [like
> dumping tokens into logs]
> - AFAICT productised clouds (push-button deploy etc) are running
> something very similar
> - we would love it if developers *also* saw what users will see by
> default, since that will tend to both stop things getting to spammy,
> and too sparse.
> 
> So - I know thats brief - what we'd like to do is to poll a slightly
> wider set of deployers - e.g. via a spec, perhaps some help from Tom

This one would be a good place for that conversation to start: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91446/

> with the users and ops groups - and get a baseline of things that
> there is consensus on and things that aren't, and then just change the
> defaults to match. Further, to achieve the 'developers see the same
> thing as users' bit, we'd like to make devstack do what TripleO does -
> use defaults for logging levels, particularly in the gate.
> 
> Its totally true that we have a good policy about logging and we're
> changing things to fit it but thats the long term play: short term,
> making the default meet our deployments seems realtively easy and
> immensely sane.
> 
> -Rob
> -- 
> Robert Collins <rbtcollins at hp.com>
> Distinguished Technologist
> HP Converged Cloud
> 
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