Open Stack

On Sat, 2014-01-18 at 09:06 +0000, Andrew Hutchings wrote:
> 
> On 17 Jan 2014, at 19:53, Jay Pipes <jaypipes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 17:03 +0000, Andrew Hutchings wrote:
> > > On 17 Jan 2014, at 16:10, Jay Pipes <jaypipes at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 14:34 +0100, Thomas Herve wrote:
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I've been looking at Neutron default LBaaS provider using
> > > > > haproxy, and while it's working nicely, it seems to have
> > > > > several shortcomings in terms of scalability and high
> > > > > availability. The Libra project seems to offer a more robust
> > > > > alternative, at least for scaling. The haproxy implementation
> > > > > in Neutron seems to continue to evolve (like with
> > > > > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/lbaas-ha-haproxy), but I'm wondering why we can't leverage Libra. The APIs are a bit different, but the goals look very similar, and there is a waste of effort with 2 different implementations. Maybe we could see a Libra driver for Neutron LBaaS for example?
> > > > 
> > > > Yep, it's a completely duplicative and wasteful effort.
> > > > 
> > > > It would be great for Libra developers to contribute to Neutron
> > > > LBaaS.
> > > 
> > > Hi Jay and Thomas,
> > > 
> > > I am the outgoing technical lead of Libra for HP.  But will reply
> > > whilst the new technical lead (Marc Pilon) gets subscribed to
> > > this.
> > 
> > :( I had no idea, Andrew!
> 
> Not a big deal, I have some cool stuff open source stuff in HP I’m
> moving on to which I’m excited about and can help Openstack in other
> ways.  You should hear about that in a few months time.

Cool. I look forward to that -- around summit time, eh?

> > So, please don't take this the wrong way... but does anyone other
> > than HP run Libra? Likewise, does anyone other than Rackspace run
> > Atlas?
> 
> No one else runs it in production that I know about, but there are
> several trying it out and appearing to want to contribute.

OK.

> I find it a little difficult to comprehend why, if Libra preceded work
> > on Neutron LBaaS, that it wasn't used as the basis of Neutron's
> > LBaaS work. I can understand this for Atlas, since it's Java, but
> > Libra is Python code... so it's even more confusing to me.
> > 
> > Granted, I don't know the history of Neutron LBaaS, but it just
> > seems to be that this particular area (LBaaS) has such blatantly
> > overlapping codebases with separate contributor teams. Just baffling
> > really.
> > 
> > Any background or history you can give me (however opinionated!)
> > would be very much appreciated :)
> 
> I don’t know if we pre-dated the planning phase, judging by a later
> email on this thread our planning phases were at the same time.  I
> wasn’t a big part of the planning phase so it is difficult to comment
> there.  But we had something we could use before we were in a place
> where we could even try out Neutron.  Also to start with our API was
> Java based (a Python replacement came later).

K, good to understand.

> > > After the 5.x release of Libra has been stabilised we will be
> > > working towards integration with Neutron.  It is a very important
> > > thing on our roadmap and we are already working with 2 other large
> > > companies in Openstack to figure that piece out.
> > 
> > Which large OpenStack companies? Are these companies currently
> > deploying Libra?
> 
> I’m not sure what is public and what isn’t so I won’t name names.
> They are currently talking to us about the best ways of working with
> us.  Both companies want to use Libra in different and interesting
> ways.  They are not currently deploying it but are both playing with
> it.  It is early days, they both approached us just before the
> Christmas break.

Did these companies say they had looked at Neutron LBaaS and found its
design or implementation lacking in some way?

> We know that working with the wider community with Libra has not been
> our strong point.  It is something I want the team to rectify and they
> are showing signs of making that happen.  People that are interested
> in Libra are welcome to hang out in the #stackforge-libra IRC channel
> to talk to us.

Cutting to the chase... have there been any discussions about the
long-term direction of Libra and Neutron LBaaS. I see little point
having two OpenStack endpoints that implement the same basic load
balancing functionality.

Is the main problem in aligning Libra and Neutron the fact that Libra is
a wholly-separate endpoint/project and Neutron LBaaS is part of the
Neutron project?

Best,
-jay