Open Stack

Excerpts from Dolph Mathews's message of 2014-08-22 09:45:37 -0700:
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Zane Bitter <zbitter at redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 22/08/14 11:19, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> >
> >> Zane Bitter wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 22/08/14 08:33, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> We also
> >>>> still need someone to have the final say in case of deadlocked issues.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> -1 we really don't.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I know we disagree on that :)
> >>
> >
> > No problem, you and I work in different programs so we can both get our
> > way ;)
> >
> >
> >  People say we don't have that many deadlocks in OpenStack for which the
> >>>> PTL ultimate power is needed, so we could get rid of them. I'd argue
> >>>> that the main reason we don't have that many deadlocks in OpenStack is
> >>>> precisely *because* we have a system to break them if they arise.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> s/that many/any/ IME and I think that threatening to break a deadlock by
> >>> fiat is just as bad as actually doing it. And by 'bad' I mean
> >>> community-poisoningly, trust-destroyingly bad.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I guess I've been active in too many dysfunctional free and open source
> >> software projects -- I put a very high value on the ability to make a
> >> final decision. Not being able to make a decision is about as
> >> community-poisoning, and also results in inability to make any
> >> significant change or decision.
> >>
> >
> > I'm all for getting a final decision, but a 'final' decision that has been
> > imposed from outside rather than internalised by the participants is...
> > rarely final.
> >
> 
> The expectation of a PTL isn't to stomp around and make "final" decisions,
> it's to step in when necessary and help both sides find the best solution.
> To moderate.
> 

Have we had many instances where a project's community divided into
two camps and dug in to the point where they actually needed active
moderation? And in those cases, was the PTL not already on one side of
said argument? I'd prefer specific examples here.

> >
> > I have yet to see a deadlock in Heat that wasn't resolved by better
> > communication.
> 
> 
> Moderation == bettering communication. I'm under the impression that you
> and Thierry are agreeing here, just from opposite ends of the same spectrum.
> 

I agree as well. PTL is a servant of the community, as any good leader
is. If the PTL feels they have to drop the hammer, or if an impass is
reached where they are asked to, it is because they have failed to get
everyone communicating effectively, not because "that's their job."