Open Stack

On Aug 9, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Paul McMillan <Paul.McMillan at Nebula.com> wrote:

> I think it's probably true that the XML bindings get very little use.
> 
> Organizations that want to use the XML API will quickly figure out that it doesn't work reliably, and fall back to the EC2 API or figure out how to live with JSON. An unreliable or unmaintained API is much worse than an API in a non-preferred format.
> 

You must be under the illusion that the OpenStack API has ever been reliable?

> George:
> Are you using the openstack XML bindings?

No. Not relevant to the conversation.

> Are you willing to contribute to testing them?

No. Not relevant to the conversation.

> Would you be personally inconvenienced by the removal of the XML bindings?
> 

Yes, I would. It goes to the complete clown show that Nebula team is running with respect to OpenStack development. In particular, there may be people who have written tools that leverage the parts of the XML API that work. And you're going to break them because you got bored with XML?

How many times do I have to yell at this community about breaking compatibility with the specifications and the production implementations before you guys listen to me?

> I realize you're providing an API to your customers that supports XML, but does it depend on openstack's XML API, or does it use JSON in the backend?
> 

You completely missed my point.

> -Paul
> 
> 
> On 08/09/2012 04:02 PM, George Reese wrote:
>> And this is why I go off on the developer-oriented mentality of the
>> OpenStack community.
>> 
>> The fact that there is no one in the OpenStack developer community
>> writing XML stuff is not a reflection of the fact that there's no huge
>> desire for XML.
>> 
>> It's in the spec for a reason: BECAUSE ENTERPRISES USE XML HEAVILY
>> 
>> OpenStack developers aren't that audience. They use JSON.
>> 
>> That the project can get to this point and not have tests for these
>> things shows a flaw in the development processes, not some grand
>> illustration of supply and demand.
>> 
>> Do I really have to point out that if the spec calls for JSON and XML,
>> you should bloody well write integration tests to check for JSON and XML?
>> 
>> You don't write whatever happens to please you.
>> 
>> You know how I know all of this? I have an API that supports both XML
>> and JSON. I personally prefer JSON. Most of my friends and colleagues
>> prefer and use JSON.
>> 
>> Most of my customers use XML.
>> 
>> Thank $deity I actually write unit tests for each format.
>> 
>> -George
>> 
>> File under:
>> -> statistics 101
>> -> software development 101
>> 
>> On Aug 9, 2012, at 5:52 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya <vishvananda at gmail.com
>> <mailto:vishvananda at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 9, 2012, at 3:32 PM, George Reese <george.reese at imaginary.com
>>> <mailto:george.reese at imaginary.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Why aren't the integration tests both XML and JSON?
>>> 
>>> The simple answer is that no one has taken the time to write them. Our
>>> devstack exercises use the python client bindings. Tempest has json
>>> clients but no xml clients[1]. I think this demonstrates that there
>>> just isn't a huge desire for xml. Users that I have chatted with just
>>> seem to care that the api works and that they they have good bindings.
>>> 
>>> I am definitely willing to be proven wrong on this point, but I'm
>>> secretly hoping everyone agrees with me. It is a lot of work to
>>> maintain three APIs (we are still maintaining EC2 as well) and keep
>>> them all functioning well, so if people are happy without OpenStack
>>> XML I would be perfectly content to deprecate it.
>>> 
>>> Vish
>>> 
>>> [1]
>>> https://github.com/openstack/tempest/tree/master/tempest/services/nova/xml
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OpenStack-dev mailing list
>>> OpenStack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>> <mailto:OpenStack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>> 
>> --
>> George Reese (george.reese at imaginary.com
>> <mailto:george.reese at imaginary.com>)
>> t: @GeorgeReese               m: +1(207)956-0217               Skype:
>> nspollution
>> cal: http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> OpenStack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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--
George Reese (george.reese at imaginary.com)
t: @GeorgeReese               m: +1(207)956-0217               Skype: nspollution
cal: http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese   




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