[all] We've combined the lists! Now what?
As previously discussed[0], proposed[1] and subsequently announced[2], the openstack, openstack-dev, openstack-sigs and openstack-operators mailing lists are being replaced by this new mailing list to which you've subscribed. As of now it's officially open for posts from subscribers, and the old lists will be configured to no longer accept posts starting on Monday December 3. In the interim, posts to the old lists will also get copied to the new list so it's safe to unsubscribe from them now and not miss any messages. Here follows few brief notes on the nature of this new list: 1. Like mentioned in the original announcement, there is an etherpad[3] where we can brainstorm subject tags we want to use. I think most of our needs are already covered there, but I'll give it a little longer to collect more ideas before I attempt to document them somewhere durable. We've already got these as a start: all, ops, dev, $projectname, $signame-sig, $groupname-wg, release, goals, uc, tc, ptl. Because we're interested in moving to Mailman 3 as our listserv in the not-too-distant future and the upstream Mailman maintainers decided to drop support for server-side topic filters, you'll need to set up client-side mail filtering if you're only interested in seeing messages for a subset of them. 2. As I've subscribed the new list to the old ones, cross-posts between them may result in some message duplication, but at least we won't have to endure it for long. 3. Remember there is no Subject header mangling on this list, so if you want to perform client-side matching it's strongly recommended you use the List-Id header to identify it. You'll likely also notice there is no list footer appended to every message. These changes in behavior from our previous lists are part of an effort to avoid creating unnecessary DMARC/DKIM violations. 4. This list is starting out with 280 early subscribers, but I expect a bunch more before the old lists are finally closed down in 3 weeks' time. [0] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-ptg-denver-2018 [1] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-August/134046.html [2] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-September/134911.htm... [3] https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/common-openstack-ml-topics -- Jeremy Stanley
Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> wrote on 11/18/2018 07:04:26 PM: ...
2. As I've subscribed the new list to the old ones, cross-posts between them may result in some message duplication, but at least we won't have to endure it for long.
I don't think this is working. New things are appearing in openstack-dev that are not coming to openstack-discuss. E.g. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-November/136517.html
On 19/11/2018 17.01, William M Edmonds wrote:
Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> wrote on 11/18/2018 07:04:26 PM: ...
2. As I've subscribed the new list to the old ones, cross-posts between them may result in some message duplication, but at least we won't have to endure it for long.
I don't think this is working. New things are appearing in openstack-dev that are not coming to openstack-discuss. E.g. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-November/136517.html
Jeremy needs to manually approve them - he will do regularly, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On 2018-11-19 17:06:10 +0100 (+0100), Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 19/11/2018 17.01, William M Edmonds wrote:
Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> wrote on 11/18/2018 07:04:26 PM: ...
2. As I've subscribed the new list to the old ones, cross-posts between them may result in some message duplication, but at least we won't have to endure it for long.
I don't think this is working. New things are appearing in openstack-dev that are not coming to openstack-discuss. E.g. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-November/136517.html
Jeremy needs to manually approve them - he will do regularly,
Correct. Messages to openstack-dev from folks who aren't subscribers to openstack-discuss will be caught in the openstack-discuss moderation queue. I'm flushing that regularly. They should also hopefully be getting a notification that their message was held for moderation due to not being a subscriber to openstack-discuss, though I haven't tested that personally. On a positive note, in the past ~16.5 hours since I opened this list to posts and subscribed it to the old lists, we've had 48 new subscribers (up from 280 to 328 as of a few seconds ago). -- Jeremy Stanley
hi folks! As it was mentioned at [1], OpenStack-infra is going to become OpenDev. Are there any plans for mailing lists? I mean, is it planned to rename 'openstack-discuss' to 'opendev-discuss' or the will be separate mailing lists for different 'groups' again? [1] - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-November/136403.html пн, 19 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:32, Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org>:
On 2018-11-19 17:06:10 +0100 (+0100), Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 19/11/2018 17.01, William M Edmonds wrote:
Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> wrote on 11/18/2018 07:04:26 PM: ...
2. As I've subscribed the new list to the old ones, cross-posts between them may result in some message duplication, but at least we won't have to endure it for long.
I don't think this is working. New things are appearing in openstack-dev that are not coming to openstack-discuss. E.g.
http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-November/136517.html
Jeremy needs to manually approve them - he will do regularly,
Correct. Messages to openstack-dev from folks who aren't subscribers to openstack-discuss will be caught in the openstack-discuss moderation queue. I'm flushing that regularly. They should also hopefully be getting a notification that their message was held for moderation due to not being a subscriber to openstack-discuss, though I haven't tested that personally.
On a positive note, in the past ~16.5 hours since I opened this list to posts and subscribed it to the old lists, we've had 48 new subscribers (up from 280 to 328 as of a few seconds ago). -- Jeremy Stanley
-- Best regards, Andrey Kurilin.
On Mon, 2018-11-19 at 10:08 -0800, Andrey Kurilin wrote:
hi folks!
As it was mentioned at [1], OpenStack-infra is going to become OpenDev. Are there any plans for mailing lists? I mean, is it planned to rename 'openstack-discuss' to 'opendev-discuss' or the will be separate mailing lists for different 'groups' again?
[1] - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-November/136403.html
so on a related note i just going an from the openstack@lists.openstack.org email adress which im not a member of because if try to reply to it i get a message telling me so. i am subsibed to openstack-dev and i recently joined openstack-discuss but i think there are some other weridness how things are beign forwarded. when they are manually approved and forwarded is the reply-to auto updated to openstack-discuss? im assuming the mail from openstack@lists.openstack.org was one that was forwarded.
пн, 19 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:32, Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org>:
On 2018-11-19 17:06:10 +0100 (+0100), Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 19/11/2018 17.01, William M Edmonds wrote:
Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> wrote on 11/18/2018 07:04:26 PM: ...
2. As I've subscribed the new list to the old ones, cross-posts between them may result in some message duplication, but at least we won't have to endure it for long.
I don't think this is working. New things are appearing in openstack-dev that are not coming to openstack-discuss. E.g. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-November/136517.html
Jeremy needs to manually approve them - he will do regularly,
Correct. Messages to openstack-dev from folks who aren't subscribers to openstack-discuss will be caught in the openstack-discuss moderation queue. I'm flushing that regularly. They should also hopefully be getting a notification that their message was held for moderation due to not being a subscriber to openstack-discuss, though I haven't tested that personally.
On a positive note, in the past ~16.5 hours since I opened this list to posts and subscribed it to the old lists, we've had 48 new subscribers (up from 280 to 328 as of a few seconds ago). -- Jeremy Stanley
On 2018-11-19 18:14:09 +0000 (+0000), Sean Mooney wrote:
so on a related note i just going an from the openstack@lists.openstack.org email adress which im not a member of because if try to reply to it i get a message telling me so.
i am subsibed to openstack-dev and i recently joined openstack-discuss but i think there are some other weridness how things are beign forwarded.
Thanks for spotting this! I see that in the case of the message you mentioned Mailman is complaining because the actual openstack-discuss list address doesn't appear in either the To or Cc headers. I've hopefully solved this now by adding the addresses of the old lists as known aliases for this one so that it will treat their appearance in To or Cc as satisfactory for this check.
when they are manually approved and forwarded is the reply-to auto updated to openstack-discuss? im assuming the mail from openstack@lists.openstack.org was one that was forwarded.
A great question... it doesn't seem to do so, no. I'll see if I can figure out whether there is a convenient option to make that happen. -- Jeremy Stanley
On 2018-11-19 19:02:45 +0000 (+0000), Jeremy Stanley wrote:
On 2018-11-19 18:14:09 +0000 (+0000), Sean Mooney wrote: [...]
when they are manually approved and forwarded is the reply-to auto updated to openstack-discuss? im assuming the mail from openstack@lists.openstack.org was one that was forwarded.
A great question... it doesn't seem to do so, no. I'll see if I can figure out whether there is a convenient option to make that happen.
Our resident Mailman guru (James E. Blair) pointed me to the necessary magic to cause the old lists to transitively accept posts from subscribers of the new list, so at least new-list subscribers' replies to old-list threads will go to them without sticking in moderation now. Turning on Reply-To munging, even if only for the next few weeks, was more of a behavior change for openstack-discuss than we were comfortable enacting. Consciously updating To/Cc fields to go to openstack-discuss when you notice it would probably be a good tactic in lieu of something more automatic and insidious. After December 3 people trying to reply to old list addresses will just get rejections, but hopefully by then they will have figured this out (I'll also try to send some more reminders to them in the meantime). Thanks again for the deep thoughts regarding this transition, and PLEASE don't anyone hesitate to mention other similar problems they happen to spot. I know it's the week after the Summit and a holiday week for some chunk of the World, but I'll do my best to be around and act quickly on anything we need to keep this as smooth as we can manage. It's a big and potentially disruptive change so I really appreciate how positive everyone's been about it so far! -- Jeremy Stanley
On 2018-11-19 10:08:49 -0800 (-0800), Andrey Kurilin wrote:
As it was mentioned at [1], OpenStack-infra is going to become OpenDev. Are there any plans for mailing lists? I mean, is it planned to rename 'openstack-discuss' to 'opendev-discuss' or the will be separate mailing lists for different 'groups' again? [...]
The openstack-discuss list is for discussions about OpenStack. The OpenStack Infrastructure team which maintains developer and community services for OpenStack and other projects is becoming OpenDev, so the openstack-infra ML may be renamed/moved in the near future but that should have no bearing on the openstack-discuss ML which is very much OpenStack-specific and expected to remain so. -- Jeremy Stanley
The openstack, openstack-dev, openstack-sigs and openstack-operators mailing lists were replaced by openstack-discuss. Starting now the old lists are no longer receiving new posts, but their addresses are aliased to the new list for the convenience of anyone replying to an earlier message. If you happen to notice one of the old list addresses in a reply you're writing, please take a moment to update it to the correct one. Here follow some brief notes on the nature of this new list: 1. We have documented[*] subject tags we want to use. Most of our current needs are probably already covered there, but if you notice something missing you can correct it by posting a change for code review to the doc/source/open-community.rst file in the openstack/project-team-guide Git repository. Because we're interested in moving to Mailman 3 as our listserv in the not-too-distant future and the upstream Mailman maintainers decided to drop support for server-side topic filters, you'll need to set up client-side mail filtering if you're only interested in seeing messages for a subset of them. 2. Remember there is no Subject header mangling on this list, so if you want to perform client-side matching it's strongly recommended you use the List-Id header to identify it. You'll likely also notice there is no list footer appended to every message. Further, the From and Reply-To headers from the original message are unaltered by the listserv. These changes in behavior from our previous lists are part of an effort to avoid creating unnecessary DMARC/DKIM violations. A mailreader with reply-to-list functionality is strongly recommended. If you're unfortunate enough not to be using such a client, you may be able to get away with using reply-to-all and then removing any irrelevant addresses (making sure to still include the mailing list's posting address). 3. Please take a moment to review our netiquette guide[**] for participating in OpenStack mailing lists. [*] https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/open-community.html#mailing-li... [**] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/MailingListEtiquette -- Jeremy Stanley
participants (5)
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Andreas Jaeger
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Andrey Kurilin
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Jeremy Stanley
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Sean Mooney
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William M Edmonds