Hi everyone - With regards to this planned deprecation, I would like to propose that we provide a heads up directly to operators who have indicated they are running either of these hypervisors within their OpenStack environment. This would also be something we could provide to OpenInfra Foundation members to ensure they are aware of upcoming changes in support. I am happy to drive the delivery of this information as my hope is that it brings the operators more into a conversation they may not know is happening and encourage them to participate. In addition to this email thread, is there anywhere else this discussion is taking place so I can make sure I have the most up-to-date information? I am happy to join any project meetings on IRC to discuss if that makes things easier. Thanks, Allison

On Nov 15, 2023, at 2:04 AM, Matthias Runge <mrunge@matthias-runge.de> wrote:

On 09/11/2023 13:44, smooney@redhat.com wrote:

...

On Thu, 2023-11-09 at 17:21 +0900, Takashi Kajinami wrote:

...

Hi all,

As you might know, some of the OpenStack projects currently support usage of VMWare component. However recently the VMware virt driver in nova was marked experimental in 2023.2 release [1] and it has been discussed that the driver will be removed in 2023.2 release[2], after deprecation is backported to 2023.1.

...

...

ceilometer: VMWare virt driver (this was deprecated by [5])

...

...

(*1) Monasca is now inactive so I doubt anyone would work on this topic before it is retired.

[1] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 [2] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 [3] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 [4] https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.... [5] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540

Hi

We can certainly work on removing the parts for vmware vsphere.

Matthias

-- Matthias Runge <mrunge@matthias-runge.de>

Hi Takashi-san,

On Nov 16, 2023, at 9:06 PM, Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> wrote:

Hi Allison,

On 11/17/23 01:26, Allison Price wrote:

...

Hi everyone -

With regards to this planned deprecation, I would like to propose that we provide a heads up directly to operators who have indicated they are running either of these hypervisors within their OpenStack environment. This would also be something we could provide to OpenInfra Foundation members to ensure they are aware of upcoming changes in support.

I am happy to drive the delivery of this information as my hope is that it brings the operators more into a conversation they may not know is happening and encourage them to participate.

It's really nice if you can help us with reaching actual users and asking their feedback. That's the very core but very difficult part of driving discussions about feature removal.

On the other hand, my intention is to move deprecation forward in anyway. These discussions are coming from the fact that these features have been unmaintained and have caused some pain in project maintenance over the years. Even if someone is interested in keeping these features, until they show their commitment and real activities, I'd be careful.

I think that this makes sense. I think it can be messaged more as a deprecation notification, not necessarily as something that can be reversed at this stage. That said, I think the CTA should still be “participate in the community to be part of these discussions” so that encourages operators to actively engage ahead of deprecation.

# Very sad fact is that we faced similar situations in the past but some of the people # who offered help did not really provide actual help eventually.

We can always revert deprecation if all concerns are solved.

...

In addition to this email thread, is there anywhere else this discussion is taking place so I can make sure I have the most up-to-date information? I am happy to join any project meetings on IRC to discuss if that makes things easier.

There have had discussions inside project (nova, glance and cinder) but I think this email is currently the only place where project-wide plan is being discussed.

A few more updates I'm aware of are

1. I've sent out an email[1] to hear any concerns about deprecating VMWare volume drivers (assuming VMWare virt driver is removed)

[1] https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack....

2. Some discussions happened at #openstack-nova earlier this week and it seems SAP is using VMWare virt driver and might be interested in keeping the feature[2].

However, there has been no commitment or agreement yet.

[2] https://meetings.opendev.org/irclogs/%23openstack-nova/%23openstack-nova.202...

As a next step, I can collect the different updates from this thread and circulate an etherpad with a drafted email for feedback. Given that there is a major holiday in the US this week, I recommend we send the email next week.

Thank you, Takashi

...

Thanks, Allison

...

On Nov 15, 2023, at 2:04 AM, Matthias Runge <mrunge@matthias-runge.de> wrote:

On 09/11/2023 13:44, smooney@redhat.com wrote:

...

On Thu, 2023-11-09 at 17:21 +0900, Takashi Kajinami wrote:

...

Hi all,

As you might know, some of the OpenStack projects currently support usage of VMWare component. However recently the VMware virt driver in nova was marked experimental in 2023.2 release [1] and it has been discussed that the driver will be removed in 2023.2 release[2], after deprecation is backported to 2023.1. ceilometer: VMWare virt driver (this was deprecated by [5])

(*1) Monasca is now inactive so I doubt anyone would work on this topic before it is retired.

[1] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 [2] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 [3] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 [4] https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.... [5] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540 Hi

We can certainly work on removing the parts for vmware vsphere.

Matthias

-- Matthias Runge <mrunge@matthias-runge.de>

On Mon, 2023-12-11 at 07:48 +0100, Michal Arbet wrote:

Hi,

Is there any chance to not deprecate vmware support ? We have customers who are using this ...

on the nova side we have agreed not to removed the vmware driver supprot until at least milestone 2 to allow a third party ci to be set up. we still plan to treat vmware as experimatal and depercated for removal in this cycle even if that ci is in place as we want to see a ongoing maintaince of the driver for at least a full release (proably more) before considering it maintained again. i.e. if the ci breaks in the D cycle and its not fixed before FF we will remove it in the D cycle under the existing deprecation. if we done see the ci reliable voting on each patch after milestone 2 we will proceed with the driver removal before milestone 3. i think it still makes sense to deprecate or at least declare vmware supprot as experimental in other projects and defer removal to the D or E cycle.

Thanks Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer

Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io *https://ultimum.io <https://ultimum.io/>*

LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

čt 9. 11. 2023 v 9:29 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> napsal:

...

Hi all,

As you might know, some of the OpenStack projects currently support usage of VMWare component. However recently the VMware virt driver in nova was marked experimental in 2023.2 release [1] and it has been discussed that the driver will be removed in 2023.2 release[2], after deprecation is backported to 2023.1. (Please someone from nova team correct me if I'm wrong)

So my current question is;

Does it make sense to deprecate all of the features to support VMWare component ?

My understanding is that these features were added to be used along with VMWare virt driver in nova, but once the virt driver is removed this use case is voided.

I'll list up the features within the discussion scope below.

   nova: VMWare virt driver (this is already experimental by [1])

   cinder: VMware Storage Driver (vmdk)

   glance: VMWare Datastore (I proposed deprecating this in [3][4])

   ceilometer: VMWare virt driver (this was deprecated by [5])

   os-brick: VmdkConnector

   monasca-agent: vcenter collector (*1)

   oslo.vmware: the whole project

NOTE: These features are found based on dependency on oslo.vmware but there can be a few not listed here.

Outside of OpenStack's governance, there are two projects dependent on oslo.vmware, networking-vsphere and vmware-nsx but both of these look inactive.

Because of SLURP, we have to complete deprecation during in 2024.1 release so that we can drop the feature right after 2024.1. If we fail then we have to maintain these features until 2025.1 (the features already deprecated can be removed earlier, though). So I'd like to get feedback and decision before deadline for 2024.1

Thank you,

Takashi

(*1) Monasca is now inactive so I doubt anyone would work on this topic before it is retired.

[1] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 [2] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 [3] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 [4]

https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.... [5] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540

As the Fabian explained, the core problem here is that we don't have appropriate test coverage and almost no one maintaining the features don't know whether the feature is still functioning. This has been a long-existing pain and the situation is becoming much worse recently because the VMWare 3rd party CI disappeared or are broken. What we may need to revise the plan would be 1. Understand the actual use cases, the features we need to support these 2. Add appropriate test coverage (by adding 3rd party CI)  - Nova requires 3rd party CI, which is currently missing  - Cinder requires 3rd party CI for the vendor volume driver. The CI exists but has been broken. 3. Continue removal for the features no one would maintain For now I'd suggest we continue deprecation during this cycle, so that we can warn more users who are using these features but are not aware of this discussion. We can review status of the effort to maintain these features at some point during next cycle (m-2?) and decide the removal. On 12/13/23 01:58, Wiesel, Fabian wrote:

Hi Michal,

I am working at SAP, where we also use OpenStack with VMware hypervisor.

the problem is that VMware didn't maintain the third-party CI, so the code is practically untested.

It would be probably good, if your customers would communicate their need to VMware for a working and maintained driver as we did.

We are trying to step up and provide a CI for the nova vmwareapi and the necessary work to keep the driver maintained. Still, the use-case of your customer may not be the same as ours, so vendor support would be still desirable.

We do not use monasca, ceilometer, or the VMware specific backend from glance, so it depends on the community to maintain these (or remove them), unless VMware or someone else steps up.

Cheers, Fabian W.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io> *Sent:* 11 December 2023 07:48 *To:* Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> *Cc:* openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> *Subject:* Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io. Learn why this is important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>

Hi,

Is there any chance to not deprecate vmware support ? We have customers who are using this ...

Thanks Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer

Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io _https://ultimum.io_

LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

čt 9. 11. 2023 v 9:29 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> napsal:

Hi all,

As you might know, some of the OpenStack projects currently support usage of VMWare component. However recently the VMware virt driver in nova was marked experimental in 2023.2 release [1] and it has been discussed that the driver will be removed in 2023.2 release[2], after deprecation is backported to 2023.1. (Please someone from nova team correct me if I'm wrong)

So my current question is;

Does it make sense to deprecate all of the features to support VMWare component ?

My understanding is that these features were added to be used along with VMWare virt driver in nova, but once the virt driver is removed this use case is voided.

I'll list up the features within the discussion scope below.

   nova: VMWare virt driver (this is already experimental by [1])

   cinder: VMware Storage Driver (vmdk)

   glance: VMWare Datastore (I proposed deprecating this in [3][4])

   ceilometer: VMWare virt driver (this was deprecated by [5])

   os-brick: VmdkConnector

   monasca-agent: vcenter collector (*1)

   oslo.vmware: the whole project

NOTE: These features are found based on dependency on oslo.vmware but there can be a few not listed here.

Outside of OpenStack's governance, there are two projects dependent on oslo.vmware, networking-vsphere and vmware-nsx but both of these look inactive.

Because of SLURP, we have to complete deprecation during in 2024.1 release so that we can drop the feature right after 2024.1. If we fail then we have to maintain these features until 2025.1 (the features already deprecated can be removed earlier, though). So I'd like to get feedback and decision before deadline for 2024.1

Thank you,

Takashi

(*1) Monasca is now inactive so I doubt anyone would work on this topic before it is retired.

[1] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 [2] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 [3] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 [4] https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.... [5] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540

Hi Takashi, Fabian, Firstly let me wish you happy new year and only better and better experience with openstack :). Takashi, does it mean if we provide CI testing for VMware support, you will change your mind and VMware will not be removed from the projects ? Fabian, have you receive any feedback from VMWare yet ? You also mentioned that you are setupping nova CI for your needs, do you have some progress ? Thank you very much Michal Arbet ( kevko ) Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic +420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io *https://ultimum.io <https://ultimum.io/>* LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline> čt 21. 12. 2023 v 16:41 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami < kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> napsal:

I brought this topic again to the cinder weekly meeting this week and we agreed to

mark VMWare volume drivers unsupported, following the situation with vmware virt driver.

Please note that, as I mentioned in my previous email, the 3rd parry CI (VMWare NSX CI) to test these drivers is broken now. So in case the volume drivers are also needed then that CI

should be also restored, to be aligned with the policy[1] in cinder.

[1]

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers

On 12/15/23 11:35, Takashi Kajinami wrote:

As the Fabian explained, the core problem here is that we don't have appropriate test coverage

and almost no one maintaining the features don't know whether the feature is still functioning.

This has been a long-existing pain and the situation is becoming much worse recently because

the VMWare 3rd party CI disappeared or are broken.

What we may need to revise the plan would be

1. Understand the actual use cases, the features we need to support these

2. Add appropriate test coverage (by adding 3rd party CI)

- Nova requires 3rd party CI, which is currently missing

- Cinder requires 3rd party CI for the vendor volume driver. The CI exists but has been broken.

3. Continue removal for the features no one would maintain

For now I'd suggest we continue deprecation during this cycle, so that we can warn more users

who are using these features but are not aware of this discussion. We can review status of the effort

to maintain these features at some point during next cycle (m-2?) and decide the removal.

On 12/13/23 01:58, Wiesel, Fabian wrote:

Hi Michal,

I am working at SAP, where we also use OpenStack with VMware hypervisor.

the problem is that VMware didn't maintain the third-party CI, so the code is practically untested.

It would be probably good, if your customers would communicate their need to VMware for a working and maintained driver as we did.

We are trying to step up and provide a CI for the nova vmwareapi and the necessary work to keep the driver maintained. Still, the use-case of your customer may not be the same as ours, so vendor support would be still desirable.

We do not use monasca, ceilometer, or the VMware specific backend from glance, so it depends on the community to maintain these (or remove them), unless VMware or someone else steps up.

Cheers, Fabian W.

------------------------------ *From:* Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <michal.arbet@ultimum.io> *Sent:* 11 December 2023 07:48 *To:* Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> *Cc:* openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> *Subject:* Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io. Learn why this is important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>

Hi,

Is there any chance to not deprecate vmware support ? We have customers who are using this ...

Thanks Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer

Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io *https://ultimum.io <https://ultimum.io/>*

LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

čt 9. 11. 2023 v 9:29 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami < kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> napsal:

Hi all,

As you might know, some of the OpenStack projects currently support usage of VMWare component. However recently the VMware virt driver in nova was marked experimental in 2023.2 release [1] and it has been discussed that the driver will be removed in 2023.2 release[2], after deprecation is backported to 2023.1. (Please someone from nova team correct me if I'm wrong)

So my current question is;

Does it make sense to deprecate all of the features to support VMWare component ?

My understanding is that these features were added to be used along with VMWare virt driver in nova, but once the virt driver is removed this use case is voided.

I'll list up the features within the discussion scope below.

nova: VMWare virt driver (this is already experimental by [1])

cinder: VMware Storage Driver (vmdk)

glance: VMWare Datastore (I proposed deprecating this in [3][4])

ceilometer: VMWare virt driver (this was deprecated by [5])

os-brick: VmdkConnector

monasca-agent: vcenter collector (*1)

oslo.vmware: the whole project

NOTE: These features are found based on dependency on oslo.vmware but there can be a few not listed here.

Outside of OpenStack's governance, there are two projects dependent on oslo.vmware, networking-vsphere and vmware-nsx but both of these look inactive.

Because of SLURP, we have to complete deprecation during in 2024.1 release so that we can drop the feature right after 2024.1. If we fail then we have to maintain these features until 2025.1 (the features already deprecated can be removed earlier, though). So I'd like to get feedback and decision before deadline for 2024.1

Thank you,

Takashi

(*1) Monasca is now inactive so I doubt anyone would work on this topic before it is retired.

[1] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 [2] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 [3] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 [4]

https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.... [5] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540

Hi Fabian, That's great news ! Thank you for the update. Feel free to ask me or my colleagues for any help as we are also interested to don't remove VMWare support from the code and we can probably help. Thanks, Michal Arbet ( kevko ) Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic +420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io *https://ultimum.io <https://ultimum.io/>* LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline> st 17. 1. 2024 v 12:49 odesílatel Wiesel, Fabian <fabian.wiesel@sap.com> napsal:

Hi Michal,

From our communications with VMware, it seems they are not likely to step up here.

Regarding the progress with the CI:

I am reporting in weekly Nova team meetings ( https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova) under the topic vmwareapi 3rd-party CI efforts Highlights. The removal is pending on delivering a working .

Status of our efforts:

- Bot user "vmwareapi CI run by SAP" (sap-openstack-ci), which receives the Gerrit events from review.opendev.org - 786GB Host set aside - Six Nested ESXi hosts + VSphere + Ubuntu VM for DevStack running on host - Logs will be made available under http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap pending security approval (hopefully this week) - DevStack gets automatically brought up from scratch for each patchSet (That's new from yesterday)

Missing (to my knowledge):

- Running the tests - Shipping the logs - Comment/Vote on the PR - Fixes to get it actually working again (because master currently cannot boot with root disk, only with boot-from-volume)

Cheers, Fabian

------------------------------ *From:* Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io> *Sent:* 17 January 2024 12:14 *To:* Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> *Cc:* openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org < openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> *Subject:* Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io. Learn why this is important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> Hi Takashi, Fabian,

Firstly let me wish you happy new year and only better and better experience with openstack :).

Takashi, does it mean if we provide CI testing for VMware support, you will change your mind and VMware will not be removed from the projects ?

Fabian, have you receive any feedback from VMWare yet ? You also mentioned that you are setupping nova CI for your needs, do you have some progress ?

Thank you very much

Michal Arbet ( kevko ) Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer

Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io *https://ultimum.io <https://ultimum.io/>*

LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

čt 21. 12. 2023 v 16:41 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami < kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> napsal:

I brought this topic again to the cinder weekly meeting this week and we agreed to

mark VMWare volume drivers unsupported, following the situation with vmware virt driver.

Please note that, as I mentioned in my previous email, the 3rd parry CI (VMWare NSX CI) to test these drivers is broken now. So in case the volume drivers are also needed then that CI

should be also restored, to be aligned with the policy[1] in cinder.

[1]

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers

On 12/15/23 11:35, Takashi Kajinami wrote:

As the Fabian explained, the core problem here is that we don't have appropriate test coverage

and almost no one maintaining the features don't know whether the feature is still functioning.

This has been a long-existing pain and the situation is becoming much worse recently because

the VMWare 3rd party CI disappeared or are broken.

What we may need to revise the plan would be

1. Understand the actual use cases, the features we need to support these

2. Add appropriate test coverage (by adding 3rd party CI)

- Nova requires 3rd party CI, which is currently missing

- Cinder requires 3rd party CI for the vendor volume driver. The CI exists but has been broken.

3. Continue removal for the features no one would maintain

For now I'd suggest we continue deprecation during this cycle, so that we can warn more users

who are using these features but are not aware of this discussion. We can review status of the effort

to maintain these features at some point during next cycle (m-2?) and decide the removal.

On 12/13/23 01:58, Wiesel, Fabian wrote:

Hi Michal,

I am working at SAP, where we also use OpenStack with VMware hypervisor.

the problem is that VMware didn't maintain the third-party CI, so the code is practically untested.

It would be probably good, if your customers would communicate their need to VMware for a working and maintained driver as we did.

We are trying to step up and provide a CI for the nova vmwareapi and the necessary work to keep the driver maintained. Still, the use-case of your customer may not be the same as ours, so vendor support would be still desirable.

We do not use monasca, ceilometer, or the VMware specific backend from glance, so it depends on the community to maintain these (or remove them), unless VMware or someone else steps up.

Cheers, Fabian W.

------------------------------ *From:* Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <michal.arbet@ultimum.io> *Sent:* 11 December 2023 07:48 *To:* Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> *Cc:* openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> *Subject:* Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io. Learn why this is important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>

Hi,

Is there any chance to not deprecate vmware support ? We have customers who are using this ...

Thanks Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer

Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io *https://ultimum.io <https://ultimum.io/>*

LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

čt 9. 11. 2023 v 9:29 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami < kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> napsal:

Hi all,

As you might know, some of the OpenStack projects currently support usage of VMWare component. However recently the VMware virt driver in nova was marked experimental in 2023.2 release [1] and it has been discussed that the driver will be removed in 2023.2 release[2], after deprecation is backported to 2023.1. (Please someone from nova team correct me if I'm wrong)

So my current question is;

Does it make sense to deprecate all of the features to support VMWare component ?

My understanding is that these features were added to be used along with VMWare virt driver in nova, but once the virt driver is removed this use case is voided.

I'll list up the features within the discussion scope below.

nova: VMWare virt driver (this is already experimental by [1])

cinder: VMware Storage Driver (vmdk)

glance: VMWare Datastore (I proposed deprecating this in [3][4])

ceilometer: VMWare virt driver (this was deprecated by [5])

os-brick: VmdkConnector

monasca-agent: vcenter collector (*1)

oslo.vmware: the whole project

NOTE: These features are found based on dependency on oslo.vmware but there can be a few not listed here.

Outside of OpenStack's governance, there are two projects dependent on oslo.vmware, networking-vsphere and vmware-nsx but both of these look inactive.

Because of SLURP, we have to complete deprecation during in 2024.1 release so that we can drop the feature right after 2024.1. If we fail then we have to maintain these features until 2025.1 (the features already deprecated can be removed earlier, though). So I'd like to get feedback and decision before deadline for 2024.1

Thank you,

Takashi

(*1) Monasca is now inactive so I doubt anyone would work on this topic before it is retired.

[1] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 [2] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 [3] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 [4]

https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.... [5] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540

Hi Fabian, Thanks for working on restoring the CI coverage. My earlier proposal was based on the fact but we have no ci coverage and no one is actually working in the community to maintain these implementations, but if you can contribute to these functionality with 3rd party CI, then that would clear the concern. I myself has not used VMWare driver unfortunately and has no plan to do so now. I may also be interested in asking the following two points.  - Which volume driver in cinder do you use ?  - Are you using ceilometer + its vmware driver ? (I know you don't use it in SAP) Thank you, Takashi Kajinami irc: tkajinam On 1/19/24 20:39, Wiesel, Fabian wrote:

Hi Michal, Hi Takashi,

I would be curious what your needs regarding the openstack vmware stack are. In particular,

- Are you using Glance with the vmware backend driver? We are using swift as a backend, so we wouldn't mind it getting dropped. - What network driver do you use? We use our own (https://github.com/sapcc/networking-nsx-t), which only handles security groups and VLAN encapsulation. - What more esoteric features like Raw Device Mapping? We do not use that and have no testing for that in place.

Cheers, Fabian

________________________________________ From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io> Sent: 17 January 2024 12:52 To: Wiesel, Fabian Cc: Takashi Kajinami; openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

Hi Fabian,

That's great news ! Thank you for the update.

Feel free to ask me or my colleagues for any help as we are also interested to don't remove VMWare support from the code and we can probably help.

Thanks, Michal Arbet ( kevko )

Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif] Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> https://ultimum.io/<https://ultimum.io/>

LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

st 17. 1. 2024 v 12:49 odesílatel Wiesel, Fabian <fabian.wiesel@sap.com<mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com>> napsal: Hi Michal,

From our communications with VMware, it seems they are not likely to step up here.

Regarding the progress with the CI:

I am reporting in weekly Nova team meetings (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova<https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova>) under the topic vmwareapi 3rd-party CI efforts Highlights. The removal is pending on delivering a working .

Status of our efforts:

* Bot user "vmwareapi CI run by SAP" (sap-openstack-ci), which receives the Gerrit events from review.opendev.org<http://review.opendev.org/> * 786GB Host set aside * Six Nested ESXi hosts + VSphere + Ubuntu VM for DevStack running on host * Logs will be made available under http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/<http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/> pending security approval (hopefully this week) * DevStack gets automatically brought up from scratch for each patchSet (That's new from yesterday)

Missing (to my knowledge):

* Running the tests * Shipping the logs * Comment/Vote on the PR * Fixes to get it actually working again (because master currently cannot boot with root disk, only with boot-from-volume)

Cheers, Fabian

________________________________ From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>> Sent: 17 January 2024 12:14 To: Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com<mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>> Cc: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>> Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> Hi Takashi, Fabian,

Firstly let me wish you happy new year and only better and better experience with openstack :).

Takashi, does it mean if we provide CI testing for VMware support, you will change your mind and VMware will not be removed from the projects ?

Fabian, have you receive any feedback from VMWare yet ? You also mentioned that you are setupping nova CI for your needs, do you have some progress ?

Thank you very much

Michal Arbet ( kevko ) Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif] Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> https://ultimum.io/<https://ultimum.io/>

LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

čt 21. 12. 2023 v 16:41 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com<mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>> napsal:

I brought this topic again to the cinder weekly meeting this week and we agreed to

mark VMWare volume drivers unsupported, following the situation with vmware virt driver.

Please note that, as I mentioned in my previous email, the 3rd parry CI (VMWare NSX CI) to test these drivers is broken now. So in case the volume drivers are also needed then that CI

should be also restored, to be aligned with the policy[1] in cinder.

[1]

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver<https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver>

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers<https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers>

On 12/15/23 11:35, Takashi Kajinami wrote:

As the Fabian explained, the core problem here is that we don't have appropriate test coverage

and almost no one maintaining the features don't know whether the feature is still functioning.

This has been a long-existing pain and the situation is becoming much worse recently because

the VMWare 3rd party CI disappeared or are broken.

What we may need to revise the plan would be

1. Understand the actual use cases, the features we need to support these

2. Add appropriate test coverage (by adding 3rd party CI)

- Nova requires 3rd party CI, which is currently missing

- Cinder requires 3rd party CI for the vendor volume driver. The CI exists but has been broken.

3. Continue removal for the features no one would maintain

For now I'd suggest we continue deprecation during this cycle, so that we can warn more users

who are using these features but are not aware of this discussion. We can review status of the effort

to maintain these features at some point during next cycle (m-2?) and decide the removal.

On 12/13/23 01:58, Wiesel, Fabian wrote: Hi Michal,

I am working at SAP, where we also use OpenStack with VMware hypervisor.

the problem is that VMware didn't maintain the third-party CI, so the code is practically untested.

It would be probably good, if your customers would communicate their need to VMware for a working and maintained driver as we did.

We are trying to step up and provide a CI for the nova vmwareapi and the necessary work to keep the driver maintained. Still, the use-case of your customer may not be the same as ours, so vendor support would be still desirable.

We do not use monasca, ceilometer, or the VMware specific backend from glance, so it depends on the community to maintain these (or remove them), unless VMware or someone else steps up.

Cheers, Fabian W.

________________________________ From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> Sent: 11 December 2023 07:48 To: Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com><mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> Cc: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>

Hi,

Is there any chance to not deprecate vmware support ? We have customers who are using this ...

Thanks Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif] Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> https://ultimum.io/<https://ultimum.io/>

LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

čt 9. 11. 2023 v 9:29 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com<mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>> napsal: Hi all,

As you might know, some of the OpenStack projects currently support usage of VMWare component. However recently the VMware virt driver in nova was marked experimental in 2023.2 release [1] and it has been discussed that the driver will be removed in 2023.2 release[2], after deprecation is backported to 2023.1. (Please someone from nova team correct me if I'm wrong)

So my current question is;

Does it make sense to deprecate all of the features to support VMWare component ?

My understanding is that these features were added to be used along with VMWare virt driver in nova, but once the virt driver is removed this use case is voided.

I'll list up the features within the discussion scope below.

nova: VMWare virt driver (this is already experimental by [1])

cinder: VMware Storage Driver (vmdk)

glance: VMWare Datastore (I proposed deprecating this in [3][4])

ceilometer: VMWare virt driver (this was deprecated by [5])

os-brick: VmdkConnector

monasca-agent: vcenter collector (*1)

oslo.vmware: the whole project

NOTE: These features are found based on dependency on oslo.vmware but there can be a few not listed here.

Outside of OpenStack's governance, there are two projects dependent on oslo.vmware, networking-vsphere and vmware-nsx but both of these look inactive.

Because of SLURP, we have to complete deprecation during in 2024.1 release so that we can drop the feature right after 2024.1. If we fail then we have to maintain these features until 2025.1 (the features already deprecated can be removed earlier, though). So I'd like to get feedback and decision before deadline for 2024.1

Thank you,

Takashi

(*1) Monasca is now inactive so I doubt anyone would work on this topic before it is retired.

[1] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911<https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911> [2] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017<https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017> [3] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696<https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696> [4] https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/PASMLPZC6B6U2EOA3CS76RKIQV7UPBCT/<https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/PASMLPZC6B6U2EOA3CS76RKIQV7UPBCT/> [5] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540<https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540>

Hi Fabian, Takashi, - We don't have swift in this environment, So we need other storage for glance images. VMware backend driver has advantage of being able to directly copy files inside VMware datastores (API call to VMware instead of downloading and uploading to glance) - We are using special driver with integration to Cisco ACI (but it in general it just connect network to pre-created network group in VMware) - We don't use anything like that If any questions, feel free to ask. Thank you very much ! Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic +420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io *https://ultimum.io <https://ultimum.io/>* LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline> pá 19. 1. 2024 v 12:39 odesílatel Wiesel, Fabian <fabian.wiesel@sap.com> napsal:

Hi Michal, Hi Takashi,

I would be curious what your needs regarding the openstack vmware stack are. In particular,

- Are you using Glance with the vmware backend driver? We are using swift as a backend, so we wouldn't mind it getting dropped. - What network driver do you use? We use our own (https://github.com/sapcc/networking-nsx-t), which only handles security groups and VLAN encapsulation. - What more esoteric features like Raw Device Mapping? We do not use that and have no testing for that in place.

Cheers, Fabian

________________________________________ From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io> Sent: 17 January 2024 12:52 To: Wiesel, Fabian Cc: Takashi Kajinami; openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

Hi Fabian,

That's great news ! Thank you for the update.

Feel free to ask me or my colleagues for any help as we are also interested to don't remove VMWare support from the code and we can probably help.

Thanks, Michal Arbet ( kevko )

Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif] Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> https://ultimum.io/<https://ultimum.io/>

LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter< https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook< https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

st 17. 1. 2024 v 12:49 odesílatel Wiesel, Fabian <fabian.wiesel@sap.com <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com>> napsal: Hi Michal,

From our communications with VMware, it seems they are not likely to step up here.

Regarding the progress with the CI:

I am reporting in weekly Nova team meetings ( https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova<; https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova>) under the topic vmwareapi 3rd-party CI efforts Highlights. The removal is pending on delivering a working .

Status of our efforts:

* Bot user "vmwareapi CI run by SAP" (sap-openstack-ci), which receives the Gerrit events from review.opendev.org<http://review.opendev.org/> * 786GB Host set aside * Six Nested ESXi hosts + VSphere + Ubuntu VM for DevStack running on host * Logs will be made available under http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/<; http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/> pending security approval (hopefully this week) * DevStack gets automatically brought up from scratch for each patchSet (That's new from yesterday)

Missing (to my knowledge):

* Running the tests * Shipping the logs * Comment/Vote on the PR * Fixes to get it actually working again (because master currently cannot boot with root disk, only with boot-from-volume)

Cheers, Fabian

________________________________ From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io

...

...

Sent: 17 January 2024 12:14 To: Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com<mailto: kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>> Cc: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org<mailto: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> < openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org<mailto: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>> Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto: michal.arbet@ultimum.io>. Learn why this is important< https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> Hi Takashi, Fabian,

Firstly let me wish you happy new year and only better and better experience with openstack :).

Takashi, does it mean if we provide CI testing for VMware support, you will change your mind and VMware will not be removed from the projects ?

Fabian, have you receive any feedback from VMWare yet ? You also mentioned that you are setupping nova CI for your needs, do you have some progress ?

Thank you very much

Michal Arbet ( kevko ) Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif] Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> https://ultimum.io/<https://ultimum.io/>

LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter< https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook< https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

čt 21. 12. 2023 v 16:41 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami < kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com<mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>> napsal:

I brought this topic again to the cinder weekly meeting this week and we agreed to

mark VMWare volume drivers unsupported, following the situation with vmware virt driver.

Please note that, as I mentioned in my previous email, the 3rd parry CI (VMWare NSX CI) to test these drivers is broken now. So in case the volume drivers are also needed then that CI

should be also restored, to be aligned with the policy[1] in cinder.

[1]

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver<; https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver>

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers<; https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers>

On 12/15/23 11:35, Takashi Kajinami wrote:

As the Fabian explained, the core problem here is that we don't have appropriate test coverage

and almost no one maintaining the features don't know whether the feature is still functioning.

This has been a long-existing pain and the situation is becoming much worse recently because

the VMWare 3rd party CI disappeared or are broken.

What we may need to revise the plan would be

1. Understand the actual use cases, the features we need to support these

2. Add appropriate test coverage (by adding 3rd party CI)

- Nova requires 3rd party CI, which is currently missing

- Cinder requires 3rd party CI for the vendor volume driver. The CI exists but has been broken.

3. Continue removal for the features no one would maintain

For now I'd suggest we continue deprecation during this cycle, so that we can warn more users

who are using these features but are not aware of this discussion. We can review status of the effort

to maintain these features at some point during next cycle (m-2?) and decide the removal.

On 12/13/23 01:58, Wiesel, Fabian wrote: Hi Michal,

I am working at SAP, where we also use OpenStack with VMware hypervisor.

the problem is that VMware didn't maintain the third-party CI, so the code is practically untested.

It would be probably good, if your customers would communicate their need to VMware for a working and maintained driver as we did.

We are trying to step up and provide a CI for the nova vmwareapi and the necessary work to keep the driver maintained. Still, the use-case of your customer may not be the same as ours, so vendor support would be still desirable.

We do not use monasca, ceilometer, or the VMware specific backend from glance, so it depends on the community to maintain these (or remove them), unless VMware or someone else steps up.

Cheers, Fabian W.

________________________________ From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io><mailto: michal.arbet@ultimum.io> Sent: 11 December 2023 07:48 To: Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com><mailto: kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> Cc: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org<mailto: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> < openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org><mailto: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto: michal.arbet@ultimum.io>. Learn why this is important< https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>

Hi,

Is there any chance to not deprecate vmware support ? We have customers who are using this ...

Thanks Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif] Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io<mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> https://ultimum.io/<https://ultimum.io/>

LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter< https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook< https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

čt 9. 11. 2023 v 9:29 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami < kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com<mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>> napsal: Hi all,

As you might know, some of the OpenStack projects currently support usage of VMWare component. However recently the VMware virt driver in nova was marked experimental in 2023.2 release [1] and it has been discussed that the driver will be removed in 2023.2 release[2], after deprecation is backported to 2023.1. (Please someone from nova team correct me if I'm wrong)

So my current question is;

Does it make sense to deprecate all of the features to support VMWare component ?

My understanding is that these features were added to be used along with VMWare virt driver in nova, but once the virt driver is removed this use case is voided.

I'll list up the features within the discussion scope below.

nova: VMWare virt driver (this is already experimental by [1])

cinder: VMware Storage Driver (vmdk)

glance: VMWare Datastore (I proposed deprecating this in [3][4])

ceilometer: VMWare virt driver (this was deprecated by [5])

os-brick: VmdkConnector

monasca-agent: vcenter collector (*1)

oslo.vmware: the whole project

NOTE: These features are found based on dependency on oslo.vmware but there can be a few not listed here.

Outside of OpenStack's governance, there are two projects dependent on oslo.vmware, networking-vsphere and vmware-nsx but both of these look inactive.

Because of SLURP, we have to complete deprecation during in 2024.1 release so that we can drop the feature right after 2024.1. If we fail then we have to maintain these features until 2025.1 (the features already deprecated can be removed earlier, though). So I'd like to get feedback and decision before deadline for 2024.1

Thank you,

Takashi

(*1) Monasca is now inactive so I doubt anyone would work on this topic before it is retired.

[1] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911<; https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911> [2] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017<; https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017> [3] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696<; https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696> [4]

https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.... < https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack....

...

[5] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540<; https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540>

Hi Michael, Hi Takashi, I cannot make any promises on providing a CI for glance, as it isn't our use-case. I can only say that the hardware would be capable enough, but currently as the pipeline is set up, it is fully busy with just nova pull-requests. But we need to put some engineering effort into the pipeline to allow for more throughput either way. Cheers, Fabian ________________________________________ From: Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> Sent: 04 March 2024 14:24 To: Michal Arbet; Wiesel, Fabian Cc: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ? Hi Michael, IIUC the current plan by SAP does not cover VMWare store driver. AFAIK glance doesn't have strict 3rd party CI policy, like the ones in cinder, but IMO we need at least very simple test coverage to keep maintaining the code. I'll bring this topic in a future glance irc meeting and we may probably continue discussion over the next cycle to determine the requirements to keep the vmware store driver in glance (like asking you to work on adding CI with VMWare store driver, as was done to SAP to keep nova/cinder drivers). On 2/29/24 22:31, Michal Arbet wrote:

Hi Fabian, Takashi,

* We don't have swift in this environment, So we need other storage for glance images. VMware backend driver has advantage of being able to directly copy files inside VMware datastores (API call to VMware instead of downloading and uploading to glance) * We are using special driver with integration to Cisco ACI (but it in general it just connect network to pre-created network group in VMware) * We don't use anything like that

If any questions, feel free to ask.

Thank you very much !

Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer

Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> _https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/>_

LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

pá 19. 1. 2024 v 12:39 odesílatel Wiesel, Fabian <fabian.wiesel@sap.com <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com>> napsal:

Hi Michal, Hi Takashi,

I would be curious what your needs regarding the openstack vmware stack are. In particular,

- Are you using Glance with the vmware backend driver? We are using swift as a backend, so we wouldn't mind it getting dropped. - What network driver do you use? We use our own (https://github.com/sapcc/networking-nsx-t <https://github.com/sapcc/networking-nsx-t>), which only handles security groups and VLAN encapsulation. - What more esoteric features like Raw Device Mapping? We do not use that and have no testing for that in place.

Cheers, Fabian

________________________________________ From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>> Sent: 17 January 2024 12:52 To: Wiesel, Fabian Cc: Takashi Kajinami; openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

Hi Fabian,

That's great news ! Thank you for the update.

Feel free to ask me or my colleagues for any help as we are also interested to don't remove VMWare support from the code and we can probably help.

Thanks, Michal Arbet ( kevko )

Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif>] Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>> https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/><https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/>>

LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies>> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/ultimumtech <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech>> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>>

st 17. 1. 2024 v 12:49 odesílatel Wiesel, Fabian <fabian.wiesel@sap.com <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com><mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com>>> napsal: Hi Michal,

From our communications with VMware, it seems they are not likely to step up here.

Regarding the progress with the CI:

I am reporting in weekly Nova team meetings (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova><https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova>>) under the topic vmwareapi 3rd-party CI efforts Highlights. The removal is pending on delivering a working .

Status of our efforts:

* Bot user "vmwareapi CI run by SAP" (sap-openstack-ci), which receives the Gerrit events from review.opendev.org <http://review.opendev.org/><http://review.opendev.org/ <http://review.opendev.org/>> * 786GB Host set aside * Six Nested ESXi hosts + VSphere + Ubuntu VM for DevStack running on host * Logs will be made available under http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/ <http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/><http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/ <http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/>> pending security approval (hopefully this week) * DevStack gets automatically brought up from scratch for each patchSet (That's new from yesterday)

Missing (to my knowledge):

* Running the tests * Shipping the logs * Comment/Vote on the PR * Fixes to get it actually working again (because master currently cannot boot with root disk, only with boot-from-volume)

Cheers, Fabian

________________________________ From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>> Sent: 17 January 2024 12:14 To: Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com><mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>>> Cc: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>> <openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>>> Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>> Hi Takashi, Fabian,

Firstly let me wish you happy new year and only better and better experience with openstack :).

Takashi, does it mean if we provide CI testing for VMware support, you will change your mind and VMware will not be removed from the projects ?

Fabian, have you receive any feedback from VMWare yet ? You also mentioned that you are setupping nova CI for your needs, do you have some progress ?

Thank you very much

Michal Arbet ( kevko ) Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif>] Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>> https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/><https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/>>

LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies>> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/ultimumtech <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech>> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>>

čt 21. 12. 2023 v 16:41 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com><mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>>> napsal:

I brought this topic again to the cinder weekly meeting this week and we agreed to

mark VMWare volume drivers unsupported, following the situation with vmware virt driver.

Please note that, as I mentioned in my previous email, the 3rd parry CI (VMWare NSX CI) to test these drivers is broken now. So in case the volume drivers are also needed then that CI

should be also restored, to be aligned with the policy[1] in cinder.

[1]

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver><https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver>>

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers><https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers>>

On 12/15/23 11:35, Takashi Kajinami wrote:

As the Fabian explained, the core problem here is that we don't have appropriate test coverage

and almost no one maintaining the features don't know whether the feature is still functioning.

This has been a long-existing pain and the situation is becoming much worse recently because

the VMWare 3rd party CI disappeared or are broken.

What we may need to revise the plan would be

1. Understand the actual use cases, the features we need to support these

2. Add appropriate test coverage (by adding 3rd party CI)

- Nova requires 3rd party CI, which is currently missing

- Cinder requires 3rd party CI for the vendor volume driver. The CI exists but has been broken.

3. Continue removal for the features no one would maintain

For now I'd suggest we continue deprecation during this cycle, so that we can warn more users

who are using these features but are not aware of this discussion. We can review status of the effort

to maintain these features at some point during next cycle (m-2?) and decide the removal.

On 12/13/23 01:58, Wiesel, Fabian wrote: Hi Michal,

I am working at SAP, where we also use OpenStack with VMware hypervisor.

the problem is that VMware didn't maintain the third-party CI, so the code is practically untested.

It would be probably good, if your customers would communicate their need to VMware for a working and maintained driver as we did.

We are trying to step up and provide a CI for the nova vmwareapi and the necessary work to keep the driver maintained. Still, the use-case of your customer may not be the same as ours, so vendor support would be still desirable.

We do not use monasca, ceilometer, or the VMware specific backend from glance, so it depends on the community to maintain these (or remove them), unless VMware or someone else steps up.

Cheers, Fabian W.

________________________________ From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>> Sent: 11 December 2023 07:48 To: Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>><mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>> Cc: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>> <openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>><mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>> Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>>

Hi,

Is there any chance to not deprecate vmware support ? We have customers who are using this ...

Thanks Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif>] Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>> https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/><https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/>>

LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies>> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/ultimumtech <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech>> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>>

čt 9. 11. 2023 v 9:29 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com><mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>>> napsal: Hi all,

As you might know, some of the OpenStack projects currently support usage of VMWare component. However recently the VMware virt driver in nova was marked experimental in 2023.2 release [1] and it has been discussed that the driver will be removed in 2023.2 release[2], after deprecation is backported to 2023.1. (Please someone from nova team correct me if I'm wrong)

So my current question is;

Does it make sense to deprecate all of the features to support VMWare component ?

My understanding is that these features were added to be used along with VMWare virt driver in nova, but once the virt driver is removed this use case is voided.

I'll list up the features within the discussion scope below.

nova: VMWare virt driver (this is already experimental by [1])

cinder: VMware Storage Driver (vmdk)

glance: VMWare Datastore (I proposed deprecating this in [3][4])

ceilometer: VMWare virt driver (this was deprecated by [5])

os-brick: VmdkConnector

monasca-agent: vcenter collector (*1)

oslo.vmware: the whole project

NOTE: These features are found based on dependency on oslo.vmware but there can be a few not listed here.

Outside of OpenStack's governance, there are two projects dependent on oslo.vmware, networking-vsphere and vmware-nsx but both of these look inactive.

Because of SLURP, we have to complete deprecation during in 2024.1 release so that we can drop the feature right after 2024.1. If we fail then we have to maintain these features until 2025.1 (the features already deprecated can be removed earlier, though). So I'd like to get feedback and decision before deadline for 2024.1

Thank you,

Takashi

(*1) Monasca is now inactive so I doubt anyone would work on this topic before it is retired.

[1] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911><https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911>> [2] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017><https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017>> [3] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696><https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696>> [4] https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.... <https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/PASMLPZC6B6U2EOA3CS76RKIQV7UPBCT/><https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/PASMLPZC6B6U2EOA3CS76RKIQV7UPBCT/ <https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/PASMLPZC6B6U2EOA3CS76RKIQV7UPBCT/>> [5] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540><https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540>>

So I brought this topic to glance weekly meeting today[1] and had the following two agreements there. 1. The recommended approach is to use cinder store driver, instead of using vmware store driver. It allows you to store image datain VMWare storage, assuming you use VMWare volume driver. 2. Glance team will discuss CI policy and implementation at PTG, to discuss the plan about a few drivers(s3 and vmware) which currently lack appropriate functional test coverage. Please join it if vmware driver is still required. Please note that, because the team has been experiencing difficulties in maintaining these drivers without test coverage, the current preference is removing the driver without actual commitment to add and maintain CI coverage. [1] https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/glance/2024/glance.2024-03-07-14.00.lo... [2] https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2024.2-ptg-glance-planning#L122 On 3/7/24 22:28, Michal Arbet wrote:

Hi All,

Feel free to ask me if any work will need to be done from my side - of course I can help with CI setup. Main problem for us is that we don't have HW for development and CI maintenance, HW is only on the customer side ...

So I will be glad if there will be a chance to work on this ... I can give a hand ..

Thanks, Michal Arbet (kevko) Michal Arbet Openstack Engineer

Ultimum Technologies a.s. Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 Czech Republic

+420 604 228 897 michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> _https://ultimum.io <https://ultimum.io/>_

LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>

út 5. 3. 2024 v 9:24 odesílatel Wiesel, Fabian <fabian.wiesel@sap.com <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com>> napsal:

Hi Michael, Hi Takashi,

I cannot make any promises on providing a CI for glance, as it isn't our use-case. I can only say that the hardware would be capable enough, but currently as the pipeline is set up, it is fully busy with just nova pull-requests. But we need to put some engineering effort into the pipeline to allow for more throughput either way.

Cheers,   Fabian

________________________________________ From: Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>> Sent: 04 March 2024 14:24 To: Michal Arbet; Wiesel, Fabian Cc: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ?

Hi Michael,

IIUC the current plan by SAP does not cover VMWare store driver. AFAIK glance doesn't have strict 3rd party CI policy, like the ones in cinder, but IMO we need at least very simple test coverage to keep maintaining the code.

I'll bring this topic in a future glance irc meeting and we may probably continue discussion over the next cycle to determine the requirements to keep the vmware store driver in glance (like asking you to work on adding CI with VMWare store driver, as was done to SAP to keep nova/cinder drivers).

On 2/29/24 22:31, Michal Arbet wrote: > Hi Fabian, Takashi, > >   * We don't have swift in this environment, So we need other storage for glance images. >     VMware backend driver has advantage of being able to directly copy files inside VMware datastores (API call to VMware instead of downloading and uploading to glance) >   * We are using special driver with integration to Cisco ACI (but it in general it just connect network to pre-created network group in VMware) >   * We don't use anything like that > > > If any questions, feel free to ask. > > Thank you very much ! > > > Michal Arbet > Openstack Engineer > > Ultimum Technologies a.s. > Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 > Czech Republic > > +420 604 228 897 > michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>> > _https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/> <https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/>>_ > > LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies>> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech>> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>> > > > pá 19. 1. 2024 v 12:39 odesílatel Wiesel, Fabian <fabian.wiesel@sap.com <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com> <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com>>> napsal: > >     Hi Michal, Hi Takashi, > >     I would be curious what your needs regarding the openstack vmware stack are. In particular, > >     - Are you using Glance with the  vmware backend driver? >        We are using swift as a backend, so we wouldn't mind it getting dropped. >     - What network driver do you use? >        We use our own (https://github.com/sapcc/networking-nsx-t <https://github.com/sapcc/networking-nsx-t> <https://github.com/sapcc/networking-nsx-t <https://github.com/sapcc/networking-nsx-t>>), which only handles security groups and VLAN encapsulation. >     - What more esoteric features like Raw Device Mapping? >         We do not use that and have no testing for that in place. > >     Cheers, >        Fabian > > >     ________________________________________ >     From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>> >     Sent: 17 January 2024 12:52 >     To: Wiesel, Fabian >     Cc: Takashi Kajinami; openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>> >     Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ? > >     Hi Fabian, > >     That's great news ! Thank you for the update. > >     Feel free to ask me or my colleagues for any help as we are also interested to don't remove VMWare support from the code and we can probably help. > >     Thanks, >     Michal Arbet ( kevko ) > >     Michal Arbet >     Openstack Engineer >     [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif> <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif>>] >     Ultimum Technologies a.s. >     Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 >     Czech Republic > >     +420 604 228 897 > michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>> > https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/> <https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/>><https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/> <https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/>>> > >     LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies>>> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/ultimumtech <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech>>> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline> <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>>> > > >     st 17. 1. 2024 v 12:49 odesílatel Wiesel, Fabian <fabian.wiesel@sap.com <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com> <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com>><mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com> <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com <mailto:fabian.wiesel@sap.com>>>> napsal: >     Hi Michal, > >      From our communications with VMware, it seems they are not likely to step up here. > >     Regarding the progress with the CI: > >     I am reporting in weekly Nova team meetings (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova> <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova>><https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova> <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova>>>) >     under the topic vmwareapi 3rd-party CI efforts Highlights. >     The removal is pending on delivering a working . > >     Status of our efforts: > >        * >     Bot user "vmwareapi CI run by SAP" (sap-openstack-ci), which receives the Gerrit events from review.opendev.org <http://review.opendev.org> <http://review.opendev.org/ <http://review.opendev.org/>><http://review.opendev.org/ <http://review.opendev.org/> <http://review.opendev.org/ <http://review.opendev.org/>>> >        * >     786GB Host set aside >        * >     Six Nested ESXi hosts + VSphere + Ubuntu VM for DevStack running on host >        * >     Logs will be made available under http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/ <http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/> <http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/ <http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/>><http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/ <http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/> <http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/ <http://openstack-ci-logs.global.cloud.sap/>>> pending security approval (hopefully this week) >        * >     DevStack gets automatically brought up from scratch for each patchSet (That's new from yesterday) > >     Missing (to my knowledge): > >        *   Running the tests >        *   Shipping the logs >        *   Comment/Vote on the PR >        * >     Fixes to get it actually working again (because master currently cannot boot with root disk, only with boot-from-volume) > >     Cheers, >        Fabian > >     ________________________________ >     From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>>> >     Sent: 17 January 2024 12:14 >     To: Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>><mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>>>> >     Cc: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>><mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>>> <openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>><mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>>>> >     Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ? > >     You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>>> >     Hi Takashi, Fabian, > >     Firstly let me wish you happy new year and only better and better experience with openstack :). > >     Takashi, does it mean if we provide CI testing for VMware support, you will change your mind and VMware will not be removed from the projects ? > >     Fabian, have you receive any feedback from VMWare yet ?  You also mentioned that you are setupping nova CI for your needs, do you have some progress ? > >     Thank you very much > >     Michal Arbet ( kevko ) >     Michal Arbet >     Openstack Engineer >     [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif> <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif>>] >     Ultimum Technologies a.s. >     Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 >     Czech Republic > >     +420 604 228 897 > michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>> > https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/> <https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/>><https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/> <https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/>>> > >     LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies>>> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/ultimumtech <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech>>> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline> <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>>> > > >     čt 21. 12. 2023 v 16:41 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>><mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>>>> napsal: > >     I brought this topic again to the cinder weekly meeting this week and we agreed to > >     mark VMWare volume drivers unsupported, following the situation with vmware virt driver. > > >     Please note that, as I mentioned in my previous email, the 3rd parry CI (VMWare NSX CI) >     to test these drivers is broken now. So in case the volume drivers are also needed then that CI > >     should be also restored, to be aligned with the policy[1] in cinder. > > >     [1] > > https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver> <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver>><https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver> <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver>>> > > https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers> <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers>><https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers> <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers>>> > > >     On 12/15/23 11:35, Takashi Kajinami wrote: > >     As the Fabian explained, the core problem here is that we don't have appropriate test coverage > >     and almost no one maintaining the features don't know whether the feature is still functioning. > >     This has been a long-existing pain and the situation is becoming much worse recently because > >     the VMWare 3rd party CI disappeared or are broken. > > >     What we may need to revise the plan would be > > >     1. Understand the actual use cases, the features we need to support these > > >     2. Add appropriate test coverage (by adding 3rd party CI) > >       - Nova requires 3rd party CI, which is currently missing > >       - Cinder requires 3rd party CI for the vendor volume driver. The CI exists but has been broken. > > >     3. Continue removal for the features no one would maintain > > >     For now I'd suggest we continue deprecation during this cycle, so that we can warn more users > >     who are using these features but are not aware of this discussion. We can review status of the effort > >     to maintain these features at some point during next cycle (m-2?) and decide the removal. > > > >     On 12/13/23 01:58, Wiesel, Fabian wrote: >     Hi Michal, > >     I am working at SAP, where we also use OpenStack with VMware hypervisor. > >     the problem is that VMware didn't maintain the third-party CI, so the code is practically untested. > >     It would be probably good, if your customers would communicate their need to VMware for a working and maintained driver as we did. > >     We are trying to step up and provide a CI for the nova vmwareapi and the necessary work to keep the driver maintained. Still, the use-case of your customer may not be the same as ours, so vendor support would be still desirable. > >     We do not use monasca, ceilometer, or the VMware specific backend from glance, so it depends on the community to maintain these (or remove them), unless VMware or someone else steps up. > >     Cheers, >        Fabian W. > > > > > >     ________________________________ >     From: Michal Arbet <michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>> >     Sent: 11 December 2023 07:48 >     To: Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>>><mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>>> >     Cc: openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>><mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>>> <openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>>><mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org> <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org <mailto:openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org>>> >     Subject: Re: [cinder][glance][nova][telemetry][monasca][oslo][vmware] Can we deprecate(and remove) VMWare support ? > > >     You don't often get email from michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>>> > >     Hi, > >     Is there any chance to not deprecate vmware support ? We have customers who are using this ... > >     Thanks >     Michal Arbet >     Openstack Engineer >     [https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif> <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif <https://www.google.com/a/ultimum.io/images/logo.gif>>] >     Ultimum Technologies a.s. >     Na Poříčí 1047/26, 11000 Praha 1 >     Czech Republic > >     +420 604 228 897 > michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>><mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io> <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io <mailto:michal.arbet@ultimum.io>>> > https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/> <https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/>><https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/> <https://ultimum.io/ <https://ultimum.io/>>> > >     LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies <https://www.linkedin.com/company/ultimum-technologies>>> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/ultimumtech <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech> <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech <https://twitter.com/ultimumtech>>> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline> <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline <https://www.facebook.com/ultimumtechnologies/timeline>>> > > >     čt 9. 11. 2023 v 9:29 odesílatel Takashi Kajinami <kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>><mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com> <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com <mailto:kajinamit@oss.nttdata.com>>>> napsal: >     Hi all, > > >     As you might know, some of the OpenStack projects currently support usage >     of VMWare component. However recently the VMware virt driver in nova was >     marked experimental in 2023.2 release [1] and it has been discussed that >     the driver will be removed in 2023.2 release[2], after deprecation is >     backported >     to 2023.1. >     (Please someone from nova team correct me if I'm wrong) > > >     So my current question is; > >     Does it make sense to deprecate all of the features to support VMWare >     component ? > >     My understanding is that these features were added to be used along with >     VMWare virt driver in nova, but once the virt driver is removed this use >     case >     is voided. > >     I'll list up the features within the discussion scope below. > >         nova: VMWare virt driver (this is already experimental by [1]) > >         cinder: VMware Storage Driver (vmdk) > >         glance: VMWare Datastore (I proposed deprecating this in [3][4]) > >         ceilometer: VMWare virt driver (this was deprecated by [5]) > >         os-brick: VmdkConnector > >         monasca-agent: vcenter collector (*1) > >         oslo.vmware: the whole project > >     NOTE: >     These features are found based on dependency on oslo.vmware but there >     can be a few >     not listed here. > >     Outside of OpenStack's governance, there are two projects dependent on >     oslo.vmware, >     networking-vsphere and vmware-nsx but both of these look inactive. > > >     Because of SLURP, we have to complete deprecation during in 2024.1 >     release so that we >     can drop the feature right after 2024.1. If we fail then we have to >     maintain these features >     until 2025.1 (the features already deprecated can be removed earlier, >     though). >     So I'd like to get feedback and decision before deadline for 2024.1 > >     Thank you, > >     Takashi > > >     (*1) Monasca is now inactive so I doubt anyone would work on this topic >     before it is retired. > >     [1] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911> <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911>><https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911> <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/863911>>> >     [2] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017> <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017>><https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017> <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897017>>> >     [3] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696> <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696>><https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696> <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/glance_store/+/893696>>> >     [4] > https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.... <https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/PASMLPZC6B6U2EOA3CS76RKIQV7UPBCT/> <https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.... <https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/PASMLPZC6B6U2EOA3CS76RKIQV7UPBCT/>><https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/PASMLPZC6B6U2EOA3CS76RKIQV7UPBCT/ <https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/PASMLPZC6B6U2EOA3CS76RKIQV7UPBCT/> <https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.... <https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/PASMLPZC6B6U2EOA3CS76RKIQV7UPBCT/>>> >     [5] https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540> <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540>><https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540> <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540 <https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ceilometer/+/894540>>> >