Guidelines for naming new projects
Hi I've just added a new question to the FAQ: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/LegalIssuesFAQ Q: What sort of things should I bear in mind when choosing a new project name, in order to reduce the risk of running into legal problems in the future? But I don't have an answer! I understand we can't cover all bases here. I understand that general guidelines can't replace a full conflict search by counsel. However, there are plenty of examples of why a general question to this would help developers avoid making obvious mistakes. And we're likely to just see more and more new project names, so we can't have the answer be "ask Mr Name Expert whether the name is sane". Without using any of our current project names as examples, would anyone care to take a stab at answering this generally? Thanks, Mark.
I don't have a legal answer because IANAL, but starting with a US trademark search is an easy first step: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=login&p_lang=english&p_d=trmk -Dolph On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Mark McLoughlin <markmc@redhat.com> wrote:
Hi
I've just added a new question to the FAQ:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/LegalIssuesFAQ
Q: What sort of things should I bear in mind when choosing a new project name, in order to reduce the risk of running into legal problems in the future?
But I don't have an answer!
I understand we can't cover all bases here. I understand that general guidelines can't replace a full conflict search by counsel. However, there are plenty of examples of why a general question to this would help developers avoid making obvious mistakes. And we're likely to just see more and more new project names, so we can't have the answer be "ask Mr Name Expert whether the name is sane".
Without using any of our current project names as examples, would anyone care to take a stab at answering this generally?
Thanks, Mark.
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Dolph Mathews wrote:
I don't have a legal answer because IANAL, but starting with a US trademark search is an easy first step:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=login&p_lang=english&p_d=trmk
Someone (Jonathan ?) mentioned that trademarked stuff is an issue only where there is /some/ potential for confusion, like you're in the same kind of industry... i.e. a networking company called Lemon networks can't really sue a restaurant called "Lemon" over trademark grounds. Could anyone confirm that ? -- Thierry
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Thierry Carrez <thierry@openstack.org>wrote:
Dolph Mathews wrote:
I don't have a legal answer because IANAL, but starting with a US trademark search is an easy first step:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=login&p_lang=english&p_d=trmk
Someone (Jonathan ?) mentioned that trademarked stuff is an issue only where there is /some/ potential for confusion, like you're in the same kind of industry... i.e. a networking company called Lemon networks can't really sue a restaurant called "Lemon" over trademark grounds. Could anyone confirm that ?
I believe that to be true, unless the trademark becomes so impactful that it would be confusing to use it an *any* industry (Microsoft, Kleenex, Xerox, Coca-Cola, Google).
-- Thierry
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Are you using the name of the project in commerce? Or is it solely for internal purposes? -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Carrez [mailto:thierry@openstack.org] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 9:05 AM To: legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [legal-discuss] Guidelines for naming new projects Dolph Mathews wrote:
I don't have a legal answer because IANAL, but starting with a US trademark search is an easy first step:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=login&p_lang=english&p_d=trmk
Someone (Jonathan ?) mentioned that trademarked stuff is an issue only where there is /some/ potential for confusion, like you're in the same kind of industry... i.e. a networking company called Lemon networks can't really sue a restaurant called "Lemon" over trademark grounds. Could anyone confirm that ? -- Thierry _______________________________________________ legal-discuss mailing list legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-discuss
On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 07:02:13PM +0000, Brad Haque wrote:
Are you using the name of the project in commerce? Or is it solely for internal purposes?
The various OpenStack project names are used publicly.
-----Original Message----- From: Thierry Carrez [mailto:thierry@openstack.org] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 9:05 AM To: legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [legal-discuss] Guidelines for naming new projects
Dolph Mathews wrote:
I don't have a legal answer because IANAL, but starting with a US trademark search is an easy first step:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=login&p_lang=english&p_d=trmk
Someone (Jonathan ?) mentioned that trademarked stuff is an issue only where there is /some/ potential for confusion, like you're in the same kind of industry... i.e. a networking company called Lemon networks can't really sue a restaurant called "Lemon" over trademark grounds. Could anyone confirm that ?
-- Thierry
_______________________________________________ legal-discuss mailing list legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-discuss
_______________________________________________ legal-discuss mailing list legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-discuss
Ah ok, I see "Grizzly" now as an example? I can't provide legal advice to the Foundation or this listserve, but there are a lot of different elements in evaluating likelihood of confusion (which is just an element of an infringement). To address the issue raised below, there may be areas where two completely unrelated industries end up have overlapping business which can cause infringement and issues (see e.g., Apple Inc. and Apple Records). So a trademark search on a product is usually relatively thorough exercise involving an analysis of both state and federal trademark searches in all industries and trademark classes as well as international, web, domain name etc. uses. Likely one of the member companies can do the search, but we could not give any opinion whatsoever about the validity or usability of the proposed mark. That would have to come from Foundation counsel. Richard or others may have better ideas, but you could also eliminate the need for a name and just use "OpenStack 1.0" or "OpenStack X" -----Original Message----- From: Richard Fontana [mailto:rfontana@redhat.com] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 12:18 PM To: Brad Haque Cc: Thierry Carrez; legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [legal-discuss] Guidelines for naming new projects On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 07:02:13PM +0000, Brad Haque wrote:
Are you using the name of the project in commerce? Or is it solely for internal purposes?
The various OpenStack project names are used publicly.
-----Original Message----- From: Thierry Carrez [mailto:thierry@openstack.org] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 9:05 AM To: legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [legal-discuss] Guidelines for naming new projects
Dolph Mathews wrote:
I don't have a legal answer because IANAL, but starting with a US trademark search is an easy first step:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=login&p_lang=english&p_d=trmk
Someone (Jonathan ?) mentioned that trademarked stuff is an issue only where there is /some/ potential for confusion, like you're in the same kind of industry... i.e. a networking company called Lemon networks can't really sue a restaurant called "Lemon" over trademark grounds. Could anyone confirm that ?
-- Thierry
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_______________________________________________ legal-discuss mailing list legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-discuss
On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 08:45:37PM +0000, Brad Haque wrote:
Ah ok, I see "Grizzly" now as an example?
Grizzly is a release codename, which is selected according to a process documented here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Naming I believe the question here was specifically raised in connection with names of projects proposed for incubation, but is certainly more generally applicable.
I can't provide legal advice to the Foundation or this listserve, but there are a lot of different elements in evaluating likelihood of confusion (which is just an element of an infringement). To address the issue raised below, there may be areas where two completely unrelated industries end up have overlapping business which can cause infringement and issues (see e.g., Apple Inc. and Apple Records). So a trademark search on a product is usually relatively thorough exercise involving an analysis of both state and federal trademark searches in all industries and trademark classes as well as international, web, domain name etc. uses. Likely one of the member companies can do the search, but we could not give any opinion whatsoever about the validity or usability of the proposed mark. That would have to come from Foundation counsel.
Richard or others may have better ideas, but you could also eliminate the need for a name and just use "OpenStack 1.0" or "OpenStack X"
For elimination of the release codenames, yes. Just guessing here but I suspect that might meet with some resistance from not only the developer community but also the Foundation staff. - RF
-----Original Message----- From: Richard Fontana [mailto:rfontana@redhat.com] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 12:18 PM To: Brad Haque Cc: Thierry Carrez; legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [legal-discuss] Guidelines for naming new projects
On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 07:02:13PM +0000, Brad Haque wrote:
Are you using the name of the project in commerce? Or is it solely for internal purposes?
The various OpenStack project names are used publicly.
-----Original Message----- From: Thierry Carrez [mailto:thierry@openstack.org] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 9:05 AM To: legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [legal-discuss] Guidelines for naming new projects
Dolph Mathews wrote:
I don't have a legal answer because IANAL, but starting with a US trademark search is an easy first step:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=login&p_lang=english&p_d=trmk
Someone (Jonathan ?) mentioned that trademarked stuff is an issue only where there is /some/ potential for confusion, like you're in the same kind of industry... i.e. a networking company called Lemon networks can't really sue a restaurant called "Lemon" over trademark grounds. Could anyone confirm that ?
-- Thierry
_______________________________________________ legal-discuss mailing list legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-discuss
_______________________________________________ legal-discuss mailing list legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-discuss
participants (5)
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Brad Haque
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Dolph Mathews
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Mark McLoughlin
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Richard Fontana
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Thierry Carrez