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My suggestion would be to update the personas guideline once you land on definition(s) for an App Developer:</div>
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<div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/326662/26"></a><a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/326662/26">https://review.openstack.org/#/c/326662/26</a></font></div>
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<div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri,sans-serif">Piet</font></div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>"Caballero Abraham, Rodrigo" <<a href="mailto:rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com">rodrigo.caballero.abraham@intel.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 10:29 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Igor Marnat <<a href="mailto:imarnat@mirantis.com">imarnat@mirantis.com</a>>, "Sun, Yih Leong" <<a href="mailto:yih.leong.sun@intel.com">yih.leong.sun@intel.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Stefano Maffulli <<a href="mailto:stefano@openstack.org">stefano@openstack.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:user-committee@lists.openstack.org">user-committee@lists.openstack.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:user-committee@lists.openstack.org">user-committee@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [User-committee] [app] What is an App?<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">I would then suggest:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">An OpenStack application is an application, toolset, or platform, that is built using, deployed atop, or that runs atop, OpenStack services, APIs, or SDKs.</span></font><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_____replyseparator"></a><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">
Igor <span class="SpellE">Marnat</span> [<a href="mailto:imarnat@mirantis.com">mailto:imarnat@mirantis.com</a>]
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 21, 2016 7:37 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Sun, Yih Leong <<a href="mailto:yih.leong.sun@intel.com">yih.leong.sun@intel.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Stefano <span class="SpellE">Maffulli</span> <<a href="mailto:stefano@openstack.org">stefano@openstack.org</a>>;
<a href="mailto:user-committee@lists.openstack.org">user-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [User-committee] [app] What is an App?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I'd say that "built using", "deployed atop" and "run atop" from the first part describes relationships between Apps and OpenStack in more specific manner than "has direct
interaction" from the last one. Latter one is somewhat vague, isn't it?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Igor
<span class="SpellE">Marnat</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:33 AM, Sun, Yih Leong <<a href="mailto:yih.leong.sun@intel.com" target="_blank">yih.leong.sun@intel.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-outline-level:1"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I also think that the 3rd point is too wide. We should target on application that has "direct interaction" with OpenStack
components.<br>
<br>
Cloud applications in the perspective of the App Ecosystem Working Group include<br>
1. applications built using OpenStack SDK’s or API’s; or<br>
2. applications deployed atop OpenStack using Heat, Murano, or 3rd party deployment/management tools (e.g.
<span class="SpellE">ansible</span>, puppet, chef); or<br>
3. <span class="SpellE">PaaS</span> platform that run atop OpenStack (e.g. <span class="SpellE">
CloudFoundry</span>, <span class="SpellE">OpenShift</span>, k8s)<br>
<br>
In fact, the above three can be summarized into one "generalized statement":<br>
An OpenStack application is an application, toolset or platform that has direct interaction with OpenStack services, its API or SDKs.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span class="im">-----Original Message-----</span><br>
<span class="im">From: Christopher <span class="SpellE">Aedo</span> [mailto:<a href="mailto:doc@aedo.net">doc@aedo.net</a>]</span><br>
<span class="im">Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 4:14 PM</span><br>
<span class="im">To: <span class="SpellE">Sterrett</span>, Craig <<a href="mailto:craig.sterrett@intel.com">craig.sterrett@intel.com</a>></span><br>
<span class="im">Cc: Stefano <span class="SpellE">Maffulli</span> <<a href="mailto:stefano@openstack.org">stefano@openstack.org</a>>;
<a href="mailto:user-committee@lists.openstack.org">user-committee@lists.openstack.org</a></span><br>
<span class="im">Subject: Re: [User-committee] [app] What is an App?</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:43 PM,
<span class="SpellE">Sterrett</span>, Craig <<a href="mailto:craig.sterrett@intel.com">craig.sterrett@intel.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Stefano <span class="SpellE">Maffulli</span> <<a href="mailto:stefano@openstack.org">stefano@openstack.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>> On 07/20/2016 02:21 PM, Montenegro, Patricia wrote:<br>
>>> As promised here’s the draft I propose we vote on next meeting:<br>
>><br>
>> I'm glad we're using the mailing list some more, thanks for the nudge.<br>
>><br>
>> I'm rewriting the definition using bullet points to make it more readable:<br>
>><br>
>> Cloud applications in the perspective of the App Ecosystem Working<br>
>> Group include<br>
>><br>
>> * applications built using OpenStack SDK’s or API’s; or<br>
>> * applications deployed atop OpenStack using Heat, Murano, or<br>
>> 3rd party deployment/management tools; or<br>
>><br>
>> (this includes <span class="SpellE">ansible</span>, puppet, chef, <span class="SpellE">
etc</span>, correct?)<br>
>><br>
>> * applications running within containers, or <span class="SpellE">PaaS</span> solution<br>
>> atop OpenStack.<br>
>><br>
>> This is last part I am not convinced about.<br>
>><br>
>> <span class="SpellE">PaaS</span> on top of OpenStack is <span class="SpellE">PaaS</span>, traditionally has been outside of<br>
>> OpenStack scope. <span class="SpellE">CloudFoundry</span> or <span class="SpellE">
OpenShift</span> or k8s or the next thing<br>
>> are<br>
>> *applications* for OpenStack, and OpenStack should serve them, not<br>
>> what runs on top of them (on top of OpenStack).<br>
>><br>
>> I fear we get the scope of this group too wide if we define<br>
>> "OpenStack Applications" as applications that run on <span class="SpellE">CloudFoundry</span> or
<span class="SpellE">Docker</span> Swarm.<br>
>><br>
>> Other thoughts?<br>
> Yes to "(this includes <span class="SpellE">ansible</span>, puppet, chef, <span class="SpellE">
etc</span>, correct?)"<br>
> I don't know if we can put in sample names because I don't feel like we want to promote one over the other since they are not OpenStack products, but if people think it's OK, then lets add some.<br>
><br>
> I personally feel like we need to include the 3rd bullet, for <span class="SpellE">
PaaS</span>/containers, because it's such a hot topic, just look at how many of the talks in Austin were
<span class="SpellE">Kubernetes</span>, <span class="SpellE">Docker</span>, etc. I don't know how much we will do, or can do to support apps on top of those solutions, but personally I feel like we need to at least mention them.<br>
><br>
<br>
Thank you Patricia and Craig for putting this together!<br>
<br>
I agree with Stefano to a degree on this. The third bullet seems too wide to me since it kind of skips an abstraction layer (at least the way I'm thinking about this). I also agree that we need to cover the containers and
<span class="SpellE">PaaS</span> as well though. What about shortening it to:<br>
<br>
* <span class="SpellE">PaaS</span> and container solutions running atop OpenStack<br>
<br>
That's clearer to me, in that we're still considering the concepts of container solutions (like
<span class="SpellE">kubernetes</span>) and <span class="SpellE">PaaS</span> solutions but putting the focus at that layer rather than what runs above them? Then we're still talking about the things that touch OpenStack so it's consistent with the other bullet.<br>
<br>
-Christopher<br>
<br>
> Craig <span class="SpellE">Sterrett</span><br>
<br>
>><br>
>> /<span class="SpellE">stef</span><br>
<br>
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