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I agree that we need to do a bit more work on defining what an end user is. The term end user is very much relative depending on who you’re talking to. Naming things is hard.
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<div>1. If you’re talking to an OpenStack developer who is creating a new Cinder driver, the end user to them is likely an OpenStack operator.<br>
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<div>2. If you’re talking to an OpenStack developer who is creating a new API method, the end user to them is likely an application developer.<br>
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<div>3. If you’re talking to an OpenStack developer who is creating a CLI command, the end user to them is likely an application operator.<br>
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<div>I talked a bit about this in my User Survey presentation at the last summit and here’s how I view the grid of OpenStack users [1]. We also discussed what to call end users on this list a while back [2] and, for the purposes of that thread, more or less
settled on application developers.</div>
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<div>To me the end users we’re discussing here are those that develop *and* operate applications targeting OpenStack clouds. I really don’t want us to lose site of the operators that deploy and maintain the applications built by developers for OpenStack clouds.</div>
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<div>Here's a straw man definition for end user to stimulate discussion. The public API is a good point of delineation.</div>
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<div>An OpenStack end user is anyone who interacts with an OpenStack cloud via its public APIs. That is, anyone who develops, deploys, or maintains software that uses an OpenStack cloud via any technology that interacts with its public APIs.</div>
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<div>Thoughts here?</div>
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<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Everett</div>
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<div>[1] <a href="http://www.slideshare.net/phymata/you-sir-sir-vey/12">http://www.slideshare.net/phymata/you-sir-sir-vey/12</a></div>
<div>[2] <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2013-June/000135.html">http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2013-June/000135.html</a></div>
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<div>On Aug 19, 2014, at 7:10 AM, Tom Fifield <<a href="mailto:tom@openstack.org">tom@openstack.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Chris,<br>
<br>
Before we run off and start making mailing lists, I would like to define<br>
what "end user" is. It seems pretty nebulous right now, and we need to<br>
at least get it to the point where we can say that this is the correct<br>
name for the target group before we name a mailing list after it.<br>
<br>
If I recall correctly, you had a definition in mind you were going to<br>
circulate?<br>
<br>
Ideally, we'd also scope the working group too, but I'm OK with a more<br>
light weight approach so we do no delay the creation of a rallying point<br>
for the growing interest.<br>
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<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
<br>
Tom<br>
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On 16/08/14 03:54, Chris C. Kemp wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Lauren –<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I’ve received a lot of positive feedback on the meeting, and effort in<br>
general. I would like to suggest that we do go ahead and set up a<br>
mailing list for this working group. This gives us the flexibility to<br>
CC the user-committee list for broader updates and coordinating with the<br>
broader operator community, but have a separate forum to communicate<br>
matters of interest to the end-user community. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I suggest we call this <a href="mailto:end-users@lists.openstack.org">end-users@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<<a href="mailto:end-users@lists.openstack.org">mailto:end-users@lists.openstack.org</a>>, so that we don’t embed the<br>
current “working group” nature of the community into the mailing list<br>
name, which could change in the future. I believe that there will<br>
always be a concept of OpenStack “end-users”<br>
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I’ll follow up with you regarding the possibility of coordinating a<br>
follow-on working session prior to the Design Summit where we can bring<br>
this community together again to follow-up on some of the ideas<br>
generated on the call.<br>
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I’m also working on collecting notes from the meeting to send out to<br>
those that were unable to participate in the call, which we will CC to<br>
the user-committee mailing list.<br>
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Best,<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
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*From:*Lauren Sell [<a href="mailto:lauren@openstack.org">mailto:lauren@openstack.org</a>]<br>
*Sent:* Friday, August 15, 2014 11:55 AM<br>
*To:* Chris C. Kemp<br>
*Cc:* <a href="mailto:user-committee@lists.openstack.org">user-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
*Subject:* Re: [User-committee] OpenStack End User Working Group<br>
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Thanks again Chris for running the meeting, and thanks everyone for the<br>
great input. <br>
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I personally find this discussion very exciting because it means<br>
OpenStack has been adopted to the point where we’re truly building a<br>
community of end users, who need representation and guidance to have a<br>
voice in the community. We’ve been working down this path for operators<br>
over the past year (with great progress, but still more work to be<br>
done), and we have an even bigger opportunity with end users.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The meeting recording is now live, and also posted to the wiki page:<br>
<br>
* Recording: <a href="http://bb6464121d88dd64b6ed-b08c43cca2e2f1994ff0cbedf9a194c5.r93.cf1.rackcdn.com/EndUserWG-Webinar01.mp3">
http://bb6464121d88dd64b6ed-b08c43cca2e2f1994ff0cbedf9a194c5.r93.cf1.rackcdn.com/EndUserWG-Webinar01.mp3</a><br>
* End user<br>
wiki: <a href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/End_User_Working_Group">https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/End_User_Working_Group</a> (we can<br>
break out a separate meeting section if appropriate)<br>
<br>
From the meeting burner report, we had the following attendees:<br>
<br>
* Evan Scheessele<br>
* Tom Fifield<br>
* Lauren Sell<br>
* Jeremy Stanley<br>
* Suhail Syed<br>
* Andrew Mitry<br>
* Ruben Orduz<br>
* Ed Leafe<br>
* Aminah Nailor<br>
* Constanze Kratel<br>
* Warren Volkmann<br>
* Chris Kemp<br>
* Dave Nielsen<br>
* Jonathan Bryce<br>
* Nikhil Manchanda<br>
* Dave Orth<br>
<br>
Should we go ahead and set up a mailing list for this working group (so<br>
we can also archive any previous discussions)? <br>
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Hope everyone has (or is having) a nice weekend!<br>
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Best,<br>
<br>
Lauren<br>
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On Aug 12, 2014, at 11:11 PM, Chris C. Kemp <<a href="mailto:chris.c.kemp@nebula.com">chris.c.kemp@nebula.com</a><br>
<<a href="mailto:chris.c.kemp@nebula.com">mailto:chris.c.kemp@nebula.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
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As more OpenStack-powered clouds become available, there are a<br>
growing number of "end users" of OpenStack clouds that have no<br>
direct visibility into the implementation of the OpenStack services<br>
that they are using. These “end users” are often employees of<br>
organizations that have OpenStack clouds or application developers<br>
that are using public clouds powered by OpenStack. Tim Bell and I<br>
have been discussing the best way to give a voice to this growing<br>
community of stakeholders within the broader OpenStack community,<br>
and have agreed to form a working group to work with the Foundation,<br>
User Committee, and OpenStack Board, to coordinate activities that<br>
give this small but growing community a larger voice within the<br>
overall OpenStack ecosystem. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
We have set up a meetingburner event for Thursday at 5 pm PT<br>
at <a href="http://openstack.enterthemeeting.com/m/BY7MH7X4">http://openstack.enterthemeeting.com/m/BY7MH7X4</a><br>
<br>
<<a href="http://openstack.enterthemeeting.com/m/BY7MH7X4">http://openstack.enterthemeeting.com/m/BY7MH7X4</a>><br>
<br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br>
<br>
OpenStack Meeting<br>
<br>
Following the July board meeting, we'll bring together parties<br>
interested in kicking off an end user working group under the<br>
OpenStack user committee. High level agenda: 1. Discuss “end user”<br>
vs “ app developer” 2. Discuss current activities Foundation is<br>
planning including app developer input session 3. Discuss how to<br>
communicate this and engage the larger community<br>
<br>
Read more... <<a href="http://openstack.enterthemeeting.com/m/BY7MH7X4">http://openstack.enterthemeeting.com/m/BY7MH7X4</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
Agenda:<br>
<br>
1. Chris Kemp: Overview of working group, including how key<br>
stakeholders, including “OpenStack developers,” “OpenStack<br>
operators,” “OpenStack end users,” and “OpenStack app<br>
developers” relate to this working group, the User Committee,<br>
and the overall OpenStack community. <br>
2. Lauren Sell: Discuss current activities Foundation is planning<br>
including app developer input session.<br>
3. Tom Ford: Discuss how to communicate this to the larger<br>
OpenStack community<br>
4. Community. Collect feedback, ideas and volunteers interested in<br>
helping out from the members of the User Committee.<br>
<br>
Please sign up if you are interested in learning more about (or<br>
participating in!) this working group. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
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<br>
Co-founder, OpenStack, Nebula<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:chris@kemp.com">chris@kemp.com</a> <<a href="mailto:chris@kemp.com">mailto:chris@kemp.com</a>><br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
User-committee mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:User-committee@lists.openstack.org">User-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<<a href="mailto:User-committee@lists.openstack.org">mailto:User-committee@lists.openstack.org</a>><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/user-committee">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/user-committee</a><br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
User-committee mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:User-committee@lists.openstack.org">User-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/user-committee<br>
<br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
User-committee mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:User-committee@lists.openstack.org">User-committee@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/user-committee<br>
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