From m2elsakha at gmail.com Thu May 7 14:32:42 2020 From: m2elsakha at gmail.com (Mohamed Elsakhawy) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 10:32:42 -0400 Subject: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC Message-ID: Hi All, As you may know already, there has been an ongoing discussion to merge UC and TC under a single body. Three options were presented, along with their impact on the bylaws. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012806.html We had several discussions in the UC on the three options as well as the UC items that need to be well-represented under the common committee, and here’s what we propose for the merger: 1- There’s consensus on utilizing option 1, thus requiring no bylaws change and merging AUC and ATC : 1- No bylaws change As bylaws changes take a lot of time and energy, the simplest approach would be to merge the TC and UC without changing the bylaws at all. The single body (called TC) would incorporate the AUC criteria by adding all AUC members as extra-ATC. It would tackle all aspects of our community. To respect the letter of the bylaws, the TC would formally designate 5 of its members to be the 'UC' and those would select a 'UC chair'. But all tasks would be handled together. 2- Two main core UC responsibilities need to continue to be represented under TC - Representing the user community to the broader community (Board of directors, TC...) - Working with user groups worldwide to keep the community vibrant and informed. 3- The current active workgroups under UC’s governance will be moved to be under TC’s governance. 4- AUC and ATC to be merged into a single list, potentially called AC (Active Contributor) 5- We hope to have the merger finalized before the upcoming UC elections in September 2020. In addition to discussions over the mailing list, we also have the opportunity of "face-to-face" discussions at the upcoming PTG. Thanks Mohamed --melsakhawy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fungi at yuggoth.org Thu May 7 15:47:13 2020 From: fungi at yuggoth.org (Jeremy Stanley) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 15:47:13 +0000 Subject: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20200507154712.4gprgrk23vkuntkz@yuggoth.org> On 2020-05-07 10:32:42 -0400 (-0400), Mohamed Elsakhawy wrote: [...] > 4- AUC and ATC to be merged into a single list, potentially called AC > (Active Contributor) [...] The term Active Technical Contributors (ATC) is referenced officially in OSF Bylaws Appendix 4, so renaming it may not be worth tackling in the immediate future: https://www.openstack.org/legal/technical-committee-member-policy/ > In addition to discussions over the mailing list, we also have the > opportunity of "face-to-face" discussions at the upcoming PTG. Might I recommend an item #6? Move discussions to the openstack-discuss mailing list and retire the separate user-committee ML. The TC already got rid of its dedicated mailing list a couple years back when we merged other extant lists into the then-new general discussion list. I'm happy to assist with doing the same for user-committee since I handled all the others previously. -- Jeremy Stanley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 963 bytes Desc: not available URL: From thierry at openstack.org Thu May 7 16:00:16 2020 From: thierry at openstack.org (Thierry Carrez) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 18:00:16 +0200 Subject: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6f8571bf-0d23-8a3b-1225-8c2bdd95285d@openstack.org> Mohamed Elsakhawy wrote: > As you may know already, there has been an ongoing discussion to merge > UC and TC under a single body. Three options were presented, along with > their impact on the bylaws. > > http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012806.html > > We had several discussions in the UC on the three options as well as the > UC items that need to be well-represented under the common committee, > and here’s what we propose for the merger: > [...] Thanks Mohamed for the detailed plan. With Jeremy's caveats, it sounds good to me. I'm happy to assist by filing the necessary changes in the various governance repositories. > [...] > In addition to discussions over the mailing list, we also have the > opportunity of "face-to-face" discussions at the upcoming PTG. I added this topic to the etherpad at: https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-victoria-ptg -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) From Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com Thu May 7 20:16:57 2020 From: Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com (Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 20:16:57 +0000 Subject: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC In-Reply-To: <6f8571bf-0d23-8a3b-1225-8c2bdd95285d@openstack.org> References: <6f8571bf-0d23-8a3b-1225-8c2bdd95285d@openstack.org> Message-ID: <8deb5f4fc05e4a0994845e0a0a6580ac@AUSX13MPS308.AMER.DELL.COM> Is that a recommendation we want to share with other project under OpenStack foundation? -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Carrez Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:00 AM To: Mohamed Elsakhawy; OpenStack Discuss; user-committee Subject: Re: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Mohamed Elsakhawy wrote: > As you may know already, there has been an ongoing discussion to merge > UC and TC under a single body. Three options were presented, along > with their impact on the bylaws. > > http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/0 > 12806.html > > We had several discussions in the UC on the three options as well as > the UC items that need to be well-represented under the common > committee, and here’s what we propose for the merger: > [...] Thanks Mohamed for the detailed plan. With Jeremy's caveats, it sounds good to me. I'm happy to assist by filing the necessary changes in the various governance repositories. > [...] > In addition to discussions over the mailing list, we also have the > opportunity of "face-to-face" discussions at the upcoming PTG. I added this topic to the etherpad at: https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-victoria-ptg -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) _______________________________________________ User-committee mailing list User-committee at lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/user-committee From amy at demarco.com Thu May 7 20:49:03 2020 From: amy at demarco.com (Amy) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 15:49:03 -0500 Subject: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC In-Reply-To: <8deb5f4fc05e4a0994845e0a0a6580ac@AUSX13MPS308.AMER.DELL.COM> References: <8deb5f4fc05e4a0994845e0a0a6580ac@AUSX13MPS308.AMER.DELL.COM> Message-ID: <90760AA2-76B4-414A-98B2-4AFC678D0EC1@demarco.com> OpenStack currently is the only OSF project which has a TC and UC structure. Thanks, Amy (spotz) > On May 7, 2020, at 3:17 PM, Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com wrote: > > Is that a recommendation we want to share with other project under OpenStack foundation? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Thierry Carrez > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:00 AM > To: Mohamed Elsakhawy; OpenStack Discuss; user-committee > Subject: Re: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC > > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > > Mohamed Elsakhawy wrote: >> As you may know already, there has been an ongoing discussion to merge >> UC and TC under a single body. Three options were presented, along >> with their impact on the bylaws. >> >> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/0 >> 12806.html >> >> We had several discussions in the UC on the three options as well as >> the UC items that need to be well-represented under the common >> committee, and here’s what we propose for the merger: >> [...] > > Thanks Mohamed for the detailed plan. With Jeremy's caveats, it sounds good to me. I'm happy to assist by filing the necessary changes in the various governance repositories. > >> [...] >> In addition to discussions over the mailing list, we also have the >> opportunity of "face-to-face" discussions at the upcoming PTG. > > I added this topic to the etherpad at: > https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-victoria-ptg > > -- > Thierry Carrez (ttx) > > _______________________________________________ > User-committee mailing list > User-committee at lists.openstack.org > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/user-committee > _______________________________________________ > User-committee mailing list > User-committee at lists.openstack.org > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/user-committee From fungi at yuggoth.org Thu May 7 20:49:15 2020 From: fungi at yuggoth.org (Jeremy Stanley) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 20:49:15 +0000 Subject: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC In-Reply-To: <8deb5f4fc05e4a0994845e0a0a6580ac@AUSX13MPS308.AMER.DELL.COM> References: <6f8571bf-0d23-8a3b-1225-8c2bdd95285d@openstack.org> <8deb5f4fc05e4a0994845e0a0a6580ac@AUSX13MPS308.AMER.DELL.COM> Message-ID: <20200507204915.aacgx6ch4mjvyv7r@yuggoth.org> On 2020-05-07 20:16:57 +0000 (+0000), Arkady.Kanevsky at dell.com wrote: > Is that a recommendation we want to share with other project under > OpenStack foundation? [...] As far as I'm aware, no other Open Infrastructure Project maintains a separate User Committee, and they already expect their existing governance bodies to take up user-related concerns as a matter of course. -- Jeremy Stanley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 963 bytes Desc: not available URL: From m2elsakha at gmail.com Thu May 7 22:26:18 2020 From: m2elsakha at gmail.com (Mohamed Elsakhawy) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 18:26:18 -0400 Subject: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC In-Reply-To: <171f0f85af1.1298868ff97980.1675370170083386145@ghanshyammann.com> References: <171f0f85af1.1298868ff97980.1675370170083386145@ghanshyammann.com> Message-ID: Thanks All, @Jeremy , I don't see a reason for the separate ML to continue to exist, having all discussions in openstack-discuss makes more sense. I'll bring it to the next UC meeting and keep you posted. @Ghanshyam : Part of the proposal is to have "5" designated members under TC to perform the UC duties including UG involvement. I guess that mandates some expansion of current TC activities, but that's a valid point, we may want to discuss further. On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 5:09 PM Ghanshyam Mann wrote: > ---- On Thu, 07 May 2020 09:32:42 -0500 Mohamed Elsakhawy < > m2elsakha at gmail.com> wrote ---- > > Hi All, > > > > As you may know already, there has been an ongoing discussion to merge > UC and TC under a single body. Three options were presented, along with > their impact on the bylaws. > > > > > http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012806.html > > > > We had several discussions in the UC on the three options as well as > the UC items that need to be well-represented under the common committee, > and here’s what we propose for the merger: > > > > 1- There’s consensus on utilizing option 1, thus requiring no bylaws > change and merging AUC and ATC : > > > > 1- No bylaws change > > As bylaws changes take a lot of time and energy, the simplest approach > would be to merge the TC and UC without changing the bylaws at all. The > single body (called TC) would incorporate the AUC criteria by adding all > AUC members as extra-ATC. It would tackle all aspects of our community. To > respect the letter of the bylaws, the TC would formally designate 5 of its > members to be the 'UC' and those would select a 'UC chair'. But all tasks > would be handled together. > > > > 2- Two main core UC responsibilities need to continue to be represented > under TC > > - Representing the user community to the broader community (Board of > directors, TC...) > > +1. > > > - Working with user groups worldwide to keep the community vibrant and > informed. > > This was one of my main concerns and worry since starting. This is really > important which is more of managerial activities > and event/group coordination along with OpenStack Ambassadors and IMO does > not really fit under TC activities, we may > need some other place/team to take care of these tasks. > > -gmann > > > > > 3- The current active workgroups under UC’s governance will be moved to > be under TC’s governance. > > > > 4- AUC and ATC to be merged into a single list, potentially called AC > (Active Contributor) > > > > 5- We hope to have the merger finalized before the upcoming UC > elections in September 2020. > > > > > > In addition to discussions over the mailing list, we also have the > opportunity of "face-to-face" discussions at the upcoming PTG. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Mohamed > > --melsakhawy > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allison at openstack.org Fri May 8 15:08:40 2020 From: allison at openstack.org (Allison Price) Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 10:08:40 -0500 Subject: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC In-Reply-To: <171f0f85af1.1298868ff97980.1675370170083386145@ghanshyammann.com> References: <171f0f85af1.1298868ff97980.1675370170083386145@ghanshyammann.com> Message-ID: <140A4316-F9E1-4916-A67F-0ACD15891421@openstack.org> Allison Price OpenStack Foundation allison at openstack.org > On May 7, 2020, at 4:09 PM, Ghanshyam Mann wrote: > > ---- On Thu, 07 May 2020 09:32:42 -0500 Mohamed Elsakhawy > wrote ---- >> Hi All, >> >> As you may know already, there has been an ongoing discussion to merge UC and TC under a single body. Three options were presented, along with their impact on the bylaws. >> >> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012806.html >> >> We had several discussions in the UC on the three options as well as the UC items that need to be well-represented under the common committee, and here’s what we propose for the merger: >> >> 1- There’s consensus on utilizing option 1, thus requiring no bylaws change and merging AUC and ATC : >> >> 1- No bylaws change >> As bylaws changes take a lot of time and energy, the simplest approach would be to merge the TC and UC without changing the bylaws at all. The single body (called TC) would incorporate the AUC criteria by adding all AUC members as extra-ATC. It would tackle all aspects of our community. To respect the letter of the bylaws, the TC would formally designate 5 of its members to be the 'UC' and those would select a 'UC chair'. But all tasks would be handled together. >> >> 2- Two main core UC responsibilities need to continue to be represented under TC >> - Representing the user community to the broader community (Board of directors, TC...) > > +1. > >> - Working with user groups worldwide to keep the community vibrant and informed. > > This was one of my main concerns and worry since starting. This is really important which is more of managerial activities > and event/group coordination along with OpenStack Ambassadors and IMO does not really fit under TC activities, we may > need some other place/team to take care of these tasks. Helping user groups and ambassadors is actually something that the OpenStack Foundation staff has dedicated resources for, so I don’t think that it’s something that the TC needs to worry about incorporating into their activities or setting up another team. > > -gmann > >> >> 3- The current active workgroups under UC’s governance will be moved to be under TC’s governance. >> >> 4- AUC and ATC to be merged into a single list, potentially called AC (Active Contributor) >> >> 5- We hope to have the merger finalized before the upcoming UC elections in September 2020. >> >> >> In addition to discussions over the mailing list, we also have the opportunity of "face-to-face" discussions at the upcoming PTG. >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Mohamed >> --melsakhawy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmann at ghanshyammann.com Thu May 7 21:09:06 2020 From: gmann at ghanshyammann.com (Ghanshyam Mann) Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 21:09:06 -0000 Subject: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <171f0f85af1.1298868ff97980.1675370170083386145@ghanshyammann.com> ---- On Thu, 07 May 2020 09:32:42 -0500 Mohamed Elsakhawy wrote ---- > Hi All, > > As you may know already, there has been an ongoing discussion to merge UC and TC under a single body. Three options were presented, along with their impact on the bylaws. > > http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012806.html > > We had several discussions in the UC on the three options as well as the UC items that need to be well-represented under the common committee, and here’s what we propose for the merger: > > 1- There’s consensus on utilizing option 1, thus requiring no bylaws change and merging AUC and ATC : > > 1- No bylaws change > As bylaws changes take a lot of time and energy, the simplest approach would be to merge the TC and UC without changing the bylaws at all. The single body (called TC) would incorporate the AUC criteria by adding all AUC members as extra-ATC. It would tackle all aspects of our community. To respect the letter of the bylaws, the TC would formally designate 5 of its members to be the 'UC' and those would select a 'UC chair'. But all tasks would be handled together. > > 2- Two main core UC responsibilities need to continue to be represented under TC > - Representing the user community to the broader community (Board of directors, TC...) +1. > - Working with user groups worldwide to keep the community vibrant and informed. This was one of my main concerns and worry since starting. This is really important which is more of managerial activities and event/group coordination along with OpenStack Ambassadors and IMO does not really fit under TC activities, we may need some other place/team to take care of these tasks. -gmann > > 3- The current active workgroups under UC’s governance will be moved to be under TC’s governance. > > 4- AUC and ATC to be merged into a single list, potentially called AC (Active Contributor) > > 5- We hope to have the merger finalized before the upcoming UC elections in September 2020. > > > In addition to discussions over the mailing list, we also have the opportunity of "face-to-face" discussions at the upcoming PTG. > > > Thanks > > > Mohamed > --melsakhawy > > > From gmann at ghanshyammann.com Fri May 8 15:50:49 2020 From: gmann at ghanshyammann.com (Ghanshyam Mann) Date: Fri, 08 May 2020 15:50:49 -0000 Subject: [User-committee] Uniting TC and UC In-Reply-To: <140A4316-F9E1-4916-A67F-0ACD15891421@openstack.org> References: <171f0f85af1.1298868ff97980.1675370170083386145@ghanshyammann.com> <140A4316-F9E1-4916-A67F-0ACD15891421@openstack.org> Message-ID: <171f4fb4b55.1206cc32221707.6969322475172664736@ghanshyammann.com> ---- On Fri, 08 May 2020 10:08:40 -0500 Allison Price wrote ---- > > Allison PriceOpenStack Foundationallison at openstack.org > > > > On May 7, 2020, at 4:09 PM, Ghanshyam Mann wrote: > ---- On Thu, 07 May 2020 09:32:42 -0500 Mohamed Elsakhawy wrote ---- > Hi All, > > As you may know already, there has been an ongoing discussion to merge UC and TC under a single body. Three options were presented, along with their impact on the bylaws. > > http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012806.html > > We had several discussions in the UC on the three options as well as the UC items that need to be well-represented under the common committee, and here’s what we propose for the merger: > > 1- There’s consensus on utilizing option 1, thus requiring no bylaws change and merging AUC and ATC : > > 1- No bylaws change > As bylaws changes take a lot of time and energy, the simplest approach would be to merge the TC and UC without changing the bylaws at all. The single body (called TC) would incorporate the AUC criteria by adding all AUC members as extra-ATC. It would tackle all aspects of our community. To respect the letter of the bylaws, the TC would formally designate 5 of its members to be the 'UC' and those would select a 'UC chair'. But all tasks would be handled together. > > 2- Two main core UC responsibilities need to continue to be represented under TC > - Representing the user community to the broader community (Board of directors, TC...) > > +1. > > - Working with user groups worldwide to keep the community vibrant and informed. > > This was one of my main concerns and worry since starting. This is really important which is more of managerial activities > and event/group coordination along with OpenStack Ambassadors and IMO does not really fit under TC activities, we may > need some other place/team to take care of these tasks. > > Helping user groups and ambassadors is actually something that the OpenStack Foundation staff has dedicated resources for, so I don’t think that it’s something that the TC needs to worry about incorporating into their activities or setting up another team. Thanks, Allison for updates. That is much helpful for this merge. -gmann > > -gmann > > > 3- The current active workgroups under UC’s governance will be moved to be under TC’s governance. > > 4- AUC and ATC to be merged into a single list, potentially called AC (Active Contributor) > > 5- We hope to have the merger finalized before the upcoming UC elections in September 2020. > > > In addition to discussions over the mailing list, we also have the opportunity of "face-to-face" discussions at the upcoming PTG. > > > Thanks > > > Mohamed > --melsakhawy >