To certain extent I agree with george's sentiment. <br><br>Recent example... we're changing tenants to projects in the keystone api.<br><br>Yes we maintain v2 api compatibility but there will be a cost to users in the confusion of decisions like this. George is right to be calling for openstack to grow up.<br>
<br>That's my personal opinion.<br><br>-Matt<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:55 AM, George Reese <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:george.reese@enstratus.com" target="_blank">george.reese@enstratus.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">I certainly wasn't picking on Vish, but instead the entire community so eagerly interested in option #1. You see, the OpenStack community has a perfect record of making sure stuff like that ends up breaking everyone between upgrades.<div>
<br></div><div>So, if you take offense by my comments… err, well, I'm not at all sorry. It's time for this community to grow the hell up and make sure systems upgrade nicely now and forever and that OpenStack environments are actually compatible with one another. Hell, I still find Essex environments that aren't even API compatible with one another. You have the Rackspace CTO wandering around conferences talking about how the value proposition of OpenStack is interoperability among clouds and yet you can't even get interoperability within the same OpenStack distribution of the same OpenStack version.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I smell a pile of bullshit and the community just keeps shoveling.</div><div><br></div><div>-George<br><div><div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 12, 2012, at 12:22 PM, Jay Pipes wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 07/12/2012 12:32 PM, George Reese wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">This community just doesn't give a rat's ass about compatibility, does it?<br></blockquote><br>a) Please don't be inappropriate on the mailing list<br>
b) Vish sent the email below to the mailing list *precisely because* he<br>cares about compatibility. He wants to discuss the options with the<br>community and come up with a reasonable action plan with the Cinder PTL,<br>
John Griffith for the move<br><br>Now, would you care to be constructive with your criticism?<br><br>Thanks,<br>-jay<br><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jul 11, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hello Everyone,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
Now that the PPB has decided to promote Cinder to core for the Folsom<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">release, we need to decide what happens to the existing Nova Volume<br></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">code. As far as I can see it there are two basic strategies. I'm going<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">to give an overview of each here:<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Option 1 -- Remove Nova Volume<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">==============================<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Process<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-------<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* Remove all nova-volume code from the nova project<br></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* Leave the existing nova-volume database upgrades and tables in<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> place for Folsom to allow for migration<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* Provide a simple script in cinder to copy data from the nova<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> database to the cinder database (The schema for the tables in<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> cinder are equivalent to the current nova tables)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* Work with package maintainers to provide a package based upgrade<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> from nova-volume packages to cinder packages<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* Remove the db tables immediately after Folsom<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Disadvantages<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
-------------<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* Forces deployments to go through the process of migrating to cinder<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
if they want to use volumes in the Folsom release<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Option 2 -- Deprecate Nova Volume<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">=================================<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Process<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-------<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* Mark the nova-volume code deprecated but leave it in the project<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> for the folsom release<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* Provide a migration path at folsom<br></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* Backport bugfixes to nova-volume throughout the G-cycle<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* Provide a second migration path at G<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* Package maintainers can decide when to migrate to cinder<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Disadvantages<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-------------<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
* Extra maintenance effort<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">* More confusion about storage in openstack<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
* More complicated upgrade paths need to be supported<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Personally I think Option 1 is a much more manageable strategy because<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the volume code doesn't get a whole lot of attention. I want to keep<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
things simple and clean with one deployment strategy. My opinion is that<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">if we choose option 2 we will be sacrificing significant feature<br></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">development in G in order to continue to maintain nova-volume for another<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">release.<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">But we really need to know if this is going to cause major pain to<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">existing<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">deployments out there. If it causes a bad experience for deployers we<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">need to take our medicine and go with option 2. Keep in mind that it<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
shouldn't make any difference to end users whether cinder or nova-volume<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is being used. The current nova-client can use either one.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Vish<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Mailing list: <a href="https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack" target="_blank">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Post to : <a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank">mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Unsubscribe : <a href="https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack" target="_blank">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">More help : <a href="https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp" target="_blank">https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">George Reese - Chief Technology Officer, enStratus<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">e: <a href="mailto:george.reese@enstratus.com" target="_blank">george.reese@enstratus.com</a> <<a href="mailto:george.reese@enstratus.com" target="_blank">mailto:george.reese@enstratus.com</a>> <br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Skype: nspollution t: @GeorgeReese p: <a href="tel:%2B1.207.956.0217" value="+12079560217" target="_blank">+1.207.956.0217</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">enStratus: Enterprise Cloud Management - @enStratus<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- <a href="http://www.enstratus.com" target="_blank">http://www.enstratus.com</a> <<a href="http://www.enstratus.com/" target="_blank">http://www.enstratus.com/</a>><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">To schedule a meeting with me: <a href="http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese" target="_blank">http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Mailing list: <a href="https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack" target="_blank">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Post to : <a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Unsubscribe : <a href="https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack" target="_blank">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">More help : <a href="https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp" target="_blank">https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Mailing list: <a href="https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack" target="_blank">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br>Post to : <a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a><br>
Unsubscribe : <a href="https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack" target="_blank">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br>More help : <a href="https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp" target="_blank">https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp</a><br>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><div>
<span style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><span style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><div><div>--<br>George Reese - Chief Technology Officer, enStratus<br></div></div>e: <a href="mailto:george.reese@enstratus.com" target="_blank">george.reese@enstratus.com</a> Skype: nspollution t: @GeorgeReese p: <a href="tel:%2B1.207.956.0217" value="+12079560217" target="_blank">+1.207.956.0217</a><div>
<br>enStratus: Enterprise Cloud Management - @enStratus - <a href="http://www.enstratus.com/" target="_blank">http://www.enstratus.com</a><br></div><div>To schedule a meeting with me: <a href="http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese" target="_blank">http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese</a></div>
</div></div></span></span>
</div>
<br></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Mailing list: <a href="https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack" target="_blank">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br>
Post to : <a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net" target="_blank">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a><br>
Unsubscribe : <a href="https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack" target="_blank">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br>
More help : <a href="https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp" target="_blank">https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>