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We are using Eventlet as a Webserver, not apache, and Eventlet does
have websocket support.<br>
<br>
When using Node.js do we need to run an alternative Server than the
Apache HTTPD for Dashboard?<br>
<br>
We are looking at Websockets issues for noVNC already. One
Potential approach is to use an Apache module for Websockets: I am
aware that mod_wsgi will not handle it. Perhaps getting websocket
support into mod_wsgi is a better way forward?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/25/2012 01:54 PM, Gabriel Hurley wrote:
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">To
elucidate a few more points from people’s responses so far:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:22.5pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">All
the python socket.io backends are immature projects, and
there’s a GAPING flaw with them all: WSGI (the interface
between web servers and Python) doesn’t support the
handshake features that websocket communication requires.
The WSGI standard was drafted before websockets was a thing.
There’s a gevent lib that supports it, but it’s also
immature and doesn’t play nice with Apache, etc. Deployment
will get *<b>really</b>* iteresting trying to use socket.io
with Python. I’ve tried. ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:22.5pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Pypy
*<b>is</b>* fast (I know several of the main contributors)
but it’s as big a decision to use Pypy as it is to use node,
but that only affects performance. It doesn’t make Django
any more suited to real-time communication. Pypy is also a
major new dependency that’s not packaged and it changes a
lot of things. It’s also used by several orders of magnitude
fewer people than node.js currently, so security there is a
whole different concern.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:22.5pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tornado
and Twisted are both non-blocking web servers in Python, but
both projects have serious peculiarities which we could dive
into separately. And ultimately they’re not tools any of the
Horizon contributors I’ve talked to so far are interested in
working with, which in an open source community is pretty
much a death knell for that solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:22.5pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">John
P’s point about Javascript already being a core language
used in Horizon is well taken. I get the “server-side
javascript is different” mindset, but language-bashing for
the sake of “I don’t like javascript” is no more helpful
than Python people bashing Ruby. The fact is that Javascript
as a language is extremely similar to Python in its syntax
and construction (I often write my JS to PEP8 standards),
and though it’s not as readable as Python (what is?),
there’s no reason JS code is inherently bad. Bad programmers
write bad code. Bad frameworks encourage bad code. Node.js
suffers from neither.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:22.5pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’m
100% in favor of code-bundling only being a short-term
solution. When a reasonable number of distros package things
like LESS, dropping our bundled version in favor of a
properly-versioned package would be awesome. The fewer
things to maintain the better.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">All
the best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:27.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Gabriel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openstack-bounces+gabriel.hurley=nebula.com@lists.launchpad.net">openstack-bounces+gabriel.hurley=nebula.com@lists.launchpad.net</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:openstack-bounces+gabriel.hurley=nebula.com@lists.launchpad.net">mailto:openstack-bounces+gabriel.hurley=nebula.com@lists.launchpad.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Postlethwait<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 25, 2012 9:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Simon G.; Jay Pipes<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openstack] Fwd: Nodejs in horizon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Hi
Everyone,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Sorry
if I've missed anything below, this thread has
become rather fragmented and messy (at least in my
email clients) but I will try to address the main
points I have seen so far: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo1">
<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Just
so that everyone is aware, the lessc parser that
is bundled in Horizon, while executable, is NOT
a binary. It is, in fact, just a 140 line JS
file, you can see the code here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/7367/4/bin/less/lessc"
target="_blank">https://review.openstack.org/#/c/7367/4/bin/less/lessc</a><o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo1">
<span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">The
reason I have bundled it within the Horizon
code, as Gabriel mentioned, is to assuage any
version mismatches or install issues with LESS
itself that may arise from having yet another
dependency on top of NodeJS that needs manual
steps to install. Also, the LESS package that
exists for Ubuntu is a year out of date, and
other distributions do not even have packages
for it. I would love if we could rely on the OS'
packages to assuage this dependency, but we
cannot, so this is the simplest and best-working
solution I could think of. It will be no more
difficult to maintain than jQuery, or Bootstrap,
in the Horizon code-base...<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo1">
<span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">As
for distribution support, Node can be installed
on just about anything, see here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Installing-Node.js-via-package-manager"
target="_blank">https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Installing-Node.js-via-package-manager</a><o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo1">
<span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">As
to the concerns about "it not being Python" or
"JavaScript has been abused." Well, all I can
say to that is no, it is not Python, and yes,
some developers write terrible and abusive code
with JavaScript. I'm sure I could find
horrid/abusive Python somewhere as well, but
doing so would not preclude our reasons to use
it in OpenStack. Misuse of a tool is not a
reason to fear the tool itself, if that were so
none of us would use any language, ever. Not to
mention, we already use a ton of JS in
Horizon... I'm not introducing JavaScript to
Horizon for the first time or anything here.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ul>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">I'm
sure I've missed some good points, but this thread
is a mess and is difficult to sort through... :P
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">-John
Postlethwait<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span style="color:black">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></div>
<div id="divRpF672788">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:openstack-bounces+john.postlethwait=nebula.com@lists.launchpad.net">openstack-bounces+john.postlethwait=nebula.com@lists.launchpad.net</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openstack-bounces+john.postlethwait=nebula.com@lists.launchpad.net">openstack-bounces+john.postlethwait=nebula.com@lists.launchpad.net</a>]
on behalf of Simon G. [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:semyazz@gmail.com">semyazz@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 25, 2012 7:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jay Pipes<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openstack] Fwd: Nodejs in
horizon</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:black">Maybe I've misuderstood
something, but I've tried to give examples of
other backends than node.js which can make use
of mentioned before
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://socket.io" target="_blank">socket.io</a>
and can be used to implement realtime
communication. I just wanted to minimize use
of node.js. Hmm... I'm still talking about
realtime communication, but it was only
mentioned as an example and it's not even
listed as a feature anywhere. So maybe my part
in this topic is pointless. I'll be silent
from now :)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On
Fri, May 25, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Jay Pipes <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jaypipes@gmail.com"
target="_blank">jaypipes@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On
05/25/2012 08:41 AM, Simon G. wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hello,<br>
<br>
I don't want to be rude, but fast research
about point *3c* and sockets<br>
=> PyPi search<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=socket.io&submit=search"
target="_blank">http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=socket.io&submit=search</a>><br>
<br>
* <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SocketTornad.IO/"
target="_blank">http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SocketTornad.IO/</a><br>
* <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pypi.python.org/pypi/TornadIO2/0.0.3"
target="_blank">http://pypi.python.org/pypi/TornadIO2/0.0.3</a>
,<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/MrJoes/tornadio2"
target="_blank">https://github.com/MrJoes/tornadio2</a><br>
* <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pypi.python.org/pypi/django-socketio/0.3.3"
target="_blank">http://pypi.python.org/pypi/django-socketio/0.3.3</a><br>
* <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mrjoes.github.com/2011/12/15/sockjs-bench.html"
target="_blank">
http://mrjoes.github.com/2011/12/15/sockjs-bench.html</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"><br>
<br>
How mature are those projects? I don't
know. I'm not an expert in<br>
python. I'm just trying to find
alternatives to Node.js if almost<br>
everything is in python. I'm just
testing Openstack and right now I'm<br>
trying to add something to nova, but I
really like horizon and if it's<br>
possible, I'd like to avoid node.js. I'm
not a fan of this technology<br>
even if it's popular and fast, because I
just have some doubts about<br>
Javascript and its maintainability.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
Hi Simon,<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://socket.io" target="_blank">socket.io</a>
is a Javascript library :) 3 of the 4
projects you reference above use
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://socket.io" target="_blank">socket.io</a>.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
-jay <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"><br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
</span><i><span style="color:#333333">Semy</span></i><span
style="color:black"> <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
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