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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Is it reasonable to have a service without any endpoints?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There are no use cases today that I know of that would need a service represented in the service catalog without endpoints. Since the future is vague though
and each implementation could be different, I don’t think we should require a service to have an endpoint.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Same with 3 duplicate endpoints – a use case could come up and the core contract should be flexible enough with these things.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Joseph Heck [mailto:heckj@me.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nguyen, Liem Manh<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Joe Savak; openstack@lists.launchpad.net (openstack@lists.launchpad.net); Adam Gandelman<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openstack] [Keystone] What exactly are we modeling with endpoints?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This isn't about parsing the data structure - it's about what a "service" represents so that we can model it appropriately. So what does the "service" here represent? the collection of all possible services of that type? That's what your
example would seem to indicate.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In your example, the service is a pretty simple structure - just having a type (driven by convention and API spec) and human readable name, and each service is expected to have 1 to N endpoints.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Is it reasonable to have a service without any endpoints? Regardless of reasonable, is it allowable?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What does an endpoint represent? The API's URI point, clearly. Is there a uniqueness constraint of any kind on endpoints? Is it allowable (if strange) to list 3 duplicate endpoints with exactly the same metadata on it?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-joe<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 25, 2012, at 9:37 AM, Nguyen, Liem Manh wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I would like to keep the service type and name under the service and not the endpoint, too. Make it easier to parse for a given service.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">One thing is that I am not sure if we need the metadata tag… In the Keystone XSD, we have the construct <anyAttribute namespace="##other" processContents="lax"/>,
which allows any additional, implementation-specific attribute to be added. Those that do not support the specific attribute can simply ignore it. A couple of benefits I can see with not using the metadata tag, and just use the custom element directly like
this: <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://paste.openstack.org/show/13832/">http://paste.openstack.org/show/13832/</a>, which the anyAttribute supports, are:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Simplier
parsing, one level less.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
that attribute becomes a core attribute later, no need to change the parser.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Liem</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:openstack-bounces+liem_m_nguyen=hp.com@lists.launchpad.net">openstack-bounces+liem_m_nguyen=hp.com@lists.launchpad.net</a>
[mailto:openstack-bounces+liem_m_nguyen=<a href="mailto:hp.com@lists.launchpad.net">hp.com@lists.launchpad.net</a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Joe Savak<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, April 24, 2012 1:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Joseph Heck; <a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net">
openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a> (<a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a>)<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Adam Gandelman<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Openstack] [Keystone] What exactly are we modeling with endpoints?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Having endpoints under the service construct is supposed to make it easier to programmatically find the endpoint(s) you are interested in.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For example – as nova client I can parse the service catalog and identity nova by service-type “compute” in order to get the public, internal, and admin endpoints
for nova.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">By having service type & name as attributes under the endpoint, I’ll have a harder time doing that (having to dive into each endpoint construct to identify
the ones with service-type “compute”).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Maybe it would be better to have each endpoint have its own construct inside of a service.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So instead of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://paste.openstack.org/show/13678/">http://paste.openstack.org/show/13678/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Maybe<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://paste.openstack.org/show/13682/">http://paste.openstack.org/show/13682/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:openstack-bounces+joe.savak=rackspace.com@lists.launchpad.net">openstack-bounces+joe.savak=rackspace.com@lists.launchpad.net</a>
[mailto:openstack-bounces+joe.savak=<a href="mailto:rackspace.com@lists.launchpad.net">rackspace.com@lists.launchpad.net</a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Joseph Heck<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, April 20, 2012 4:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a> (<a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a>)<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Adam Gandelman<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[Openstack] [Keystone] What exactly are we modeling with endpoints?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">While I've been roaming about the summit and conference, I've been trying to figure out exactly what we're modeling with the current "service" and "endpoints" that are in the API today. After talking with a number of folks, it's getting
clearer that how it's being used is very installation specific.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'd like to simplify this aspect of the API if at all possible, especially with a lot of the good ideas around describing the relationships between endpoints and and their installation.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The use cases I'm hearing actively in use are:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* (Horizon/UI/client) To indicate to a user where they can go to access their data<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* (Glance, Nova, Keystone client) to find the endpoint relevant to uploading images (current client implementations appear to assume there is only one image endpoint)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The use case to indicate a geographic location for a datacenter or "cloud" is not consistent - some implementations I've learned of have that feature (and use "Region" for that sort of information), and others are load balancing a single
endpoint to deploy to multiple datacenters and geographic regions from a single endpoint.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">At the summit and conference, I heard a desire to expose geographic information with the endpoints, but that is clearly an operator specific implementation/deployment detail. Likewise I heard a lot of "We could really..." if additional
metadata was easily available on endpoints, again in fairly implementation/deployment specific detail.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So looking forward towards a v.next API, what do you all think about having just "endpoints", with everything else being attributes on those endpoints (including what "service" and "type" it is), with some expected conventions (that there
are a few well defined types - such as PublicURL and InternalURL, and relevant names for the rest API endpoints (ec2, compute, volume, image, identity...) <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Additional metadata can then float on the endpoints in deployment/implementation specific ways that don't lock in other systems to be deployed and implemented in the same fashion.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-joe<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 20, 2012, at 1:47 PM, Lorin Hochstein wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 13, 2012, at 12:34 PM, Adam Gandelman wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 04/13/2012 10:50 AM, Dolph Mathews wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">While $(tenant_id)s is certainly the documented syntax, it appears that the SQL catalog backend (and *only* the SQL catalog backend, as far as I can tell) explicitly supports both $(tenant_id)s and %(tenant_id)s:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/catalog/backends/sql.py#L163">https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/catalog/backends/sql.py#L163</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps Adam Gandelman has some insight?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-Dolph<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Dolph-<br>
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No, the same is supported in the case of templated catalog as well, which is what the SQL catalog was largely based off:<br>
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<a href="https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/catalog/backends/templated.py#L115">https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/catalog/backends/templated.py#L115</a><br>
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Just tested that "sed -i 's/\$/%/g' /etc/keystone/default_catalog.templates" still produces a functional service catalog when configured to use the templated backend.<br>
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Seeing as both are supported, perhaps it would be better for docs to be updated to refer to the use of % instead of $ to avoid people running into problems with the $() sub-shell?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The OpenStack Install and Deploy manual has some language about this (see last paragraph): <a href="http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-compute/install/content/elements-of-keystone-service-catalog-entry.html">http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-compute/install/content/elements-of-keystone-service-catalog-entry.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This hasn't made its way into the admin docs yet, though.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Take care,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Lorin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Lorin Hochstein</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Lead Architect - Cloud Services</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Nimbis Services, Inc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><a href="https://www.nimbisservices.com/">www.nimbisservices.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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Post to :<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a><br>
Unsubscribe :<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://launchpad.net/~openstack">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br>
More help :<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp">https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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