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    Both points of view being expressed about this with respect to log
    error messages are valid and need to be accommodated.  <br>
    An answer, as was suggested a while back, is for error messages to
    have two parts:<br>
    <br>
    1. A locale-independent part that can be used for searches or
    understood by developers who get logs as parts of bug reports.<br>
    2.  A localized part that lets operators determine if the problem is
    their issue or an OpenStack bug to be reported. <br>
    <br>
    The current English string would serve the first role, and the
    logging code could be changed to also emit the localized string if
    available. I would argue<br>
    for this only in the case of ERROR messages and not DEBUG.<br>
    <br>
    While on the subject of logs, it would be good to agree on what
    actions should cause errors in logs to appear. Ideally, they would
    only occur if an OpenStack bug<br>
    was detected (out-of-bounds array ref, etc.) or some operational
    problem occurred (disk ran out of space, etc.). Right now errors are
    sometimes output for other<br>
    reasons such as bad arguments to api calls. This makes it difficult
    for an operator to know when a real problem with the system has
    occurred.<br>
    <br>
    David Kranz<br>
    Quanta Research Cambridge<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    On 4/12/2012 9:06 AM, Sheng Bo Hou wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:OFE19393E1.F6AF8E24-ON482579DE.0047B2A1-482579DE.00480A19@cn.ibm.com"
      type="cite"><font size="3" face="Default San Serif">Dear OpenStack
        friends,</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="3" face="Default San Serif">It will be happy and great
        for
        our OpenStack community to see this open project open to more
        market all
        over the world.</font>
      <br>
      <font size="3" face="Default San Serif">In China, OpenStack
        community
        is very active. I heard many Chinese engineers talking about
        their wish
        to have a Chinese versioned openStack, including
        documentation's, manuals,
        user interfaces, error messages, etc in OpenStack meet-ups. </font>
      <br>
      <font size="3" face="Default San Serif">I have many European
        friends
        and also Danish friends, since I used to do my university there.
        They all
        spoke perfect English, which made me admire, cos they were
        linguists in
        my point of view. Oriental languages are different. They are
        "too
        far" from the western lingual system. In China, there are many
        talented
        engineers, who are not that kind of "linguists", but they are
        lover of open source. I think it is amazing to open the "door"
        to them. In China, it is very appreciated for software to be
        localized
        as much as possible.</font>
      <br>
      <font size="3" face="Default San Serif">I used to google or
        baidu(a famous
        Chinese search engine) error messages and logs in Chinese for
        other software,
        though it is not Apache. I found a lot of useful references in
        Chinese,
        because it has been localized. If it is not localized well
        first, of course
        it does not have the google or yahoo ability to search.:-)</font>
      <br>
      <font size="3" face="Default San Serif">So far I am rather
        grateful for
        all the messages following this i18 issue. Thank you so much.</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Best wishes.<br>
        Vincent Hou (侯胜博)<br>
        <br>
        Software Engineer, Standards Growth Team, Emerging Technology
        Institute,
        IBM China Software Development Lab<br>
        <br>
        Tel: 86-10-82450778 Fax: 86-10-82453660<br>
        Notes ID: Sheng Bo Hou/China/IBM@IBMCN    E-mail:
        <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sbhou@cn.ibm.com">sbhou@cn.ibm.com</a>
        <br>
        Address:3F Ring, Building 28 Zhongguancun Software Park, 8
        Dongbeiwang
        West Road, Haidian District, Beijing, P.R.C.100193</font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
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            <td width="40%"><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><b>Soren
                  Hansen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:soren@linux2go.dk"><soren@linux2go.dk></a></b>
              </font>
              <br>
              <font size="1" face="sans-serif">Sent by:
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openstack-bounces+sbhou=cn.ibm.com@lists.launchpad.net">openstack-bounces+sbhou=cn.ibm.com@lists.launchpad.net</a></font>
              <p><font size="1" face="sans-serif">2012-04-12 19:50</font>
              </p>
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                    <td>
                      <div align="right"><font size="1"
                          face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
                    </td>
                    <td><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Hua ZZ
                        Zhang/China/IBM@IBMCN</font>
                    </td>
                  </tr>
                  <tr valign="top">
                    <td>
                      <div align="right"><font size="1"
                          face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
                    </td>
                    <td><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a>,
                        Thierry
                        Carrez <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:thierry@openstack.org"><thierry@openstack.org></a>,
                        <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openstack-bounces+zhuadl=cn.ibm.com@lists.launchpad.net">openstack-bounces+zhuadl=cn.ibm.com@lists.launchpad.net</a></font>
                    </td>
                  </tr>
                  <tr valign="top">
                    <td>
                      <div align="right"><font size="1"
                          face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
                    </td>
                    <td><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Re: [Openstack]
                        I18n issue for OpenStack</font></td>
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                    <td><br>
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      <br>
      <br>
      <tt><font size="2">Don't get me wrong.. I'd be happy to have the
          various
          openstack<br>
          clients offer localised error messages. I'd also encourage a<br>
          centralised effort to collect these translationns (so that all
          the<br>
          various language bindings will use the same localised error
          messages).<br>
          <br>
          On the server, though, I believe we should stick to English
          and<br>
          perhaps have every error message include a link (e.g.<br>
        </font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
        href="http://docs.openstack.doc/exception/NoNetworksDefinedException"><tt><font
            size="2">http://docs.openstack.doc/exception/NoNetworksDefinedException</font></tt></a><tt><font
          size="2">)
          to a<br>
          localised docs site. I think losing the ability to search the
          web for<br>
          error messages would be a major loss.<br>
          <br>
          -- <br>
          Soren Hansen             | </font></tt><a
        moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://linux2go.dk/"><tt><font
            size="2">http://linux2go.dk/</font></tt></a><tt><font
          size="2"><br>
          Senior Software Engineer | </font></tt><a
        moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.cisco.com/"><tt><font
            size="2">http://www.cisco.com/</font></tt></a><tt><font
          size="2"><br>
          Ubuntu Developer         | </font></tt><a
        moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ubuntu.com/"><tt><font
            size="2">http://www.ubuntu.com/</font></tt></a><tt><font
          size="2"><br>
          OpenStack Developer      | </font></tt><a
        moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.openstack.org/"><tt><font
            size="2">http://www.openstack.org/</font></tt></a><tt><font
          size="2"><br>
          <br>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          Mailing list: </font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
        href="https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack"><tt><font size="2">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</font></tt></a><tt><font
          size="2"><br>
          Post to     : <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a><br>
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</pre>
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