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<tt>Hi guys.<br>
When we have any kind of trouble, we hit the logs right away, and
when we see the stacks, what i want to do is to copy & paste
the error, and wait for the "search engine" to do its job, since
at this point i consider myself a user, so, i try to think like
one, and most of the time what i want, is not to ask for a
problem, but to see if someone already has it.<br>
<br>
Today i think there are enough data on launchpad to solve, or al
least, give a very accurate hint about 90% of the problem a user
may face (nova, swift, glance, maybe keystone) when they are
stuck, but some times the search are not accurate enough for a
search regarding an issue i know its there. so ... maybe i ended
up using google search to look into lauchpad.<br>
<br>
So ... first, launchpad works pretty well as a Q&A site for
openstack projects, but at least, i feel theres no a good way to
show all the experience is stored there to a "fresh" user, so a
more than good search engine i think is a must, mainly because
having lack of resources for showing an answer that is already
solved to a user, lead to the user to, 90% of the time, duplicate
a question, and so .. a lot of admin work ( maybe deleting those,
or teling the user it was already answered on THIS link), or the
feeling of the Q&A system to be forsaken because of the amount
of questions "unsolved".<br>
<br>
A forum is more than ok also, because it gives the feeling of
community and unity where the user feels confortable, but mixing
that with a Q&A system, its a little difficult.<br>
<br>
Making posts promoted to FAQS or post becoming GUIDES and going
into the FAQS, and the search engine suggesting something like
"Ok, if you didnt find your answer, maybe you are having troubles
because of an implementation or a setup problem, why dont you go
to the IMPLEMENTATION AND MOST IMPORTANT GUIDES to see if you can
improve that and fix your real problem ??" is a nice to have, make
the user confortable that they can find what they need, whitout
asking for it ... in wich case, they actually can. <br>
<br>
As a last note, from mercadolibre since we have a lot already
tested, and working into production ( nova clusters, nova volumes,
keystone, swift, glance ) we can really share our experience in
the form of "THE DEFINITVE GUIDE TO ..." or something that, maybe
doesnt actually fix a certain user problem, but helps them
understand how things gets configured, and actually how they work
2gether, we can really help on this, but i think this guides need
to be put in a place where the user actually knows they exists,
and no like just one post on the forum, or a "question" on
launchpad.<br>
<br>
The official documentation is a great starting point, its has been
greatly improved and we've always used it every time we tried a
new openstack part of the solution, so .. nicely done there Anne.<br>
<br>
hope this gives a little user perspective.<br>
<br>
---<br>
Alejandro<br>
mercadolibre.com</tt>
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On 11/30/2011 06:39 AM, Leandro Reox wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAC9jWxM5mCG1jOEx+zz8z8UkCkpEsYGGxMVpZHHMzktTk27t1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><small>I think that the main problem is that we have
many places to search for information, but a few people giving
helpful answers. A lot of newcomers join the forum but
particular setups problems sometimes leads to packaging
problems, bugs and we as moderators have to redirect the user to
re-post his problem on launchpad, starting over. I think that we
have to split packaging and developing questions vs
implementations doubts, concept misunderstanding, etc. The main
reason of people dropping Openstack on pre-production or testing
environments its cause they aren't even mid experienced python
developers, and they cant find a solution in a matter of time
that they "experience with the product" leaves them a "good
taste" to invest more time trying to implement it later. I read
a lot of "that's and end-user question, etc" don't you guys
forget that actually the "end-users" are Companies sysadmins
maybe trying to deliver an real IaaS based on an Opensource
product like Openstack. We have a huge Openstack implementation
using almost every core product, and our environment is growing
everyday faster than we expected, but when we approach to
implement a new service, or integrate for example Keystone with
Swift or Nova, we fought for days, fixing a lot of code and
ended-up on a packaging problem, cloning the Cloudbuilders repo
were the code was already fixed. That sensation to "cross up"
docs, and blogs, and examples, and launchap question to get just
to a test env, ends on companies leaving Openstack as a
"possible solution". We're pretty comfortable at python so we
love to face issues like this, but imagine a sysadmin reading
the docs, following line but line ending up with a non-working
environment asking himself why he did wrong, and maybe a magic
"oh you have to chmod all this folder" was missing on the docs.
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://docs.openstack.org">docs.openstack.org</a>
must be the bible for users that want to try openstack out, the
forums and the IRC to help "final users out", and launchpad for
issuing bugs, we need to work on getting an updated
documentation, getting a "my instances get stucked on
scheduling" or "i cannot ssh into instances" should not exist
with a clean and clear doc. We see a lot of people stuck in a
single node installation, or on his "devstack setup" thinking
about going back with they 3 vmware esxis nodes to create they
VMs, and they never experience the real benefits of running a
true IaaS all the way. <br>
Leaving the people "googling or blogging up" a few minutes after
their setup is not good at all for the platform, we try to write
up very detailed installation posts on the forums that are very
usefull for the users, with tips and common issues that we faced
installing the product.<br>
We're helping out everyday on the IRC and the forums to reduce
the traffic o users hitting common issues, and of course Anne
you can count on us to improve the docs, so that sysadmins loose
their fears and feeling of this being "too greeny to production"
and surprise themselves like we do everyday after 5 months later
running all of our applications and our productive
infrastructure over Openstack ( +1000 phy +6000 instances )<br>
<br>
Sorry for the long writing . My two cents!<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Leandro Reox <br>
Sr. Infrastructure Engineer at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mercadolibre.com">mercadolibre.com</a></small><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Lloyd
Dewolf <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lloydostack@gmail.com">lloydostack@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im">On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Stefano
Maffulli<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stefano@openstack.org">stefano@openstack.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
> On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 10:10 -0800, Lloyd Dewolf wrote:<br>
>> Where do I find this previous discussion?<br>
><br>
> around here:<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg02169.html"
target="_blank">https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg02169.html</a><br>
><br>
> What do you think of the requirements we're gathering
for the Q&A<br>
> system? I'd like your opinion on that as we move on.<br>
<br>
</div>
Thanks Stefano. I really like everyone reframing the
discussion to<br>
figure out what our needs are as opposed to ... shiny!<br>
<br>
I do think stackexchange (SE) is miles [1] ahead and the only
system<br>
that will meet the majority of our requirements.<br>
<br>
If we can get our own Area51 then it's by far the best
immediate solution.<br>
<br>
I spoke to a friend at Area51, and he suggested we might have<br>
different results if we tried again. So I feel like this is on
the<br>
table if we want to pursue.<br>
<br>
<br>
Of course, having very active SE participants (high
reputation) put<br>
the proposal forward and committing to it carries a lot of
weight.<br>
<br>
My reputation [2] is weak today, but I'm sure myself and
others could<br>
ramp up the levels quickly over the next few months.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Lloyd<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
1. See I'm getting used to United States customary units,<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customary_units"
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customary_units</a><br>
2. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://stackexchange.com/users/25765?tab=accounts"
target="_blank">http://stackexchange.com/users/25765?tab=accounts</a><br>
</font></span>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
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