<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I agree with this posting. One thing to keep in mind is that OpenStack will have many more "users" (in other words, people who are not developing the software, but rather are implementing it or even using someone's implementation as a basis for end user applications) interested in OpenStack in the future and forums are excellent for end user sharing and searching. For many of them, forums are a more modern way to do this type of research and sharing, while mailing lists are a bit intimidating. I believe that even if the developer list remains on email, there will eventually be forums for non-developers.<div><br></div><div>Think Matt was saying the same thing as well.<br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Bernard Golden</div><div><a href="mailto:bernard.golden@gmail.com">bernard.golden@gmail.com</a></div><div><br></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br><div><div>On May 2, 2011, at 3:41 PM, Ron Pedde wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 5/2/11 5:10 PM, "Matt Dietz" <<a href="mailto:matt.dietz@rackspace.com">matt.dietz@rackspace.com</a>> wrote:<br><br><br><blockquote type="cite">Fair points. I can see it being used for user support.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"Another way to have these sorts of discussions would be an<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">openstack-users<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">list, but I think lists present much more friction to tire-kickers or<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">intrigued admins. Forums have a much lower barrier to entry, and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">consequently (IMHO) they are better tools for building communities.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Controlling forum spam is an amazing pain, but that's another issue. :)"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Can you explain this a little? I don't necessarily object, but I frankly<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">don't see the difference, either.<br></blockquote><br>Hmmm... it's possible that statement is more a reflection of my own<br>preferences and experience.<br><br>My experience is that I will peruse mailing list archives, but I will<br>rarely *post* to mailing lists. Something about the formality of it or<br>the pain of subscribing and unsubscribing (or something!) makes me much<br>more reluctant to join a mailing list than to post a question in a forum.<br>If I do join a mailing list, it's because I'm actively using a product or<br>project -- I've already made the commitment to be a long-term member of<br>the community. I won't use the list just to ask a simple question about<br>installation or configuration. Forums just seem to me to be much more<br>immediate.<br><br>Conversely, I'm also much more likely to answer a question on a forum than<br>on a mailing list.<br><br>I also find that forums generally have better search capabilities than<br>most list archivers, and I have better luck digging an answer out of a<br>forum than a list archive.<br><br>It's possible I'm the only one that feels this way, though, so feel free<br>to disregard this data point. :)<br><br> -- Ron<br><br><br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 5/2/11 5:01 PM, "Ron Pedde" <<a href="mailto:ron.pedde@rackspace.com">ron.pedde@rackspace.com</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 5/2/11 4:03 PM, "Matt Dietz" <<a href="mailto:matt.dietz@rackspace.com">matt.dietz@rackspace.com</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I think a forum as a means of communication is great. However, I'm not<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">sure I feel it's the right fit here. My main concern in this regard is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that there would be a separation of important discussions.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I think the class of questions on a forum would be wildly different than<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the questions on a dev mailing list. Forums would be a great place to<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ask<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">questions like "How do I set up my bridge interface to persist on<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">reboot"?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Questions like these aren't the right questions for the openstack<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">mailing<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">list, and end-users don't want to bother devs with this sort of thing, so<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">they walk away from the project before getting it set up. Properly<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">moderated, the forums could push dev questions to the mailing list, while<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">removing distraction from devs and building a community of users.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I would also be<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">concerned about a feeling of false consensus on hot-button topics that<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">see<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">activity on one channel but not the other. Finally, we'd be introducing<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">yet another fire hose for project communications, and frankly I<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">personally<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">wouldn't feel compelled to check both, and I'm sure I'm not the only<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">one.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I don't see forums as a channel for project communication or consensus<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">building. I see it more as a way for users-to-user discussion on topics<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">like "how I implemented X on top of openstack", or "How can I integrate<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">system X with my openstack cluster". Things that don't get discussed on<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the dev list.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Another way to have these sorts of discussions would be an<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">openstack-users<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">list, but I think lists present much more friction to tire-kickers or<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">intrigued admins. Forums have a much lower barrier to entry, and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">consequently (IMHO) they are better tools for building communities.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Controlling forum spam is an amazing pain, but that's another issue. :)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Just my opinion, but I think end-user/sysadmin focused forums are a great<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">idea.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-- Ron<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message (including any attached or<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">embedded documents) is intended for the exclusive and confidential use of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">individual or entity to which this message is addressed, and unless<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">otherwise<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">expressly indicated, is confidential and privileged information of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Rackspace. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Any dissemination, distribution or copying of the enclosed material is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">prohibited.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us immediately<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">by e-mail<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">at <a href="mailto:abuse@rackspace.com">abuse@rackspace.com</a>, and delete the original message.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Your cooperation is appreciated.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Mailing list: <a href="https://launchpad.net/~openstack">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Post to : <a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Unsubscribe : <a href="https://launchpad.net/~openstack">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">More help : <a href="https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp">https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp</a><br></blockquote><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Mailing list: <a href="https://launchpad.net/~openstack">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br>Post to : <a href="mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net">openstack@lists.launchpad.net</a><br>Unsubscribe : <a href="https://launchpad.net/~openstack">https://launchpad.net/~openstack</a><br>More help : <a href="https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp">https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>