Open Stack

On 19/09/18 7:57 AM, Adam Spiers wrote:
> [Meta-topic: I see that this thread started as a cross-post to
> openstack-{dev,operators,sigs}, but this subthread is only on -sigs,
> which presumably fractures the thread.  Is there an accepted best
> practice addressing this problem?]

My fault, I must have hit 'Reply List' instead of 'Reply All' <sigh>

Looking forward to all being on one list :)

> Jaesuk Ahn <bluejay.ahn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 5:30 AM Zane Bitter <zbitter at redhat.com> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Perhaps there are others too?
>>> Obvious questions to ask from there would be:
>>> - Whether this is the most important issue facing contributors from 
>>> the APAC region
>>> - To what extent the proposed solution is expected to help 
>>
>> I do agree with Zane on the above point.
>> As one of OpenStack participants from Asia region, I will put my 
>> personal opinion.
>> IRC and ML has been an unified and standard way of communication in 
>> OpenStack Community, and that has been a good way to encourage "open 
>> communication" on a unified method wherever you are from, or whatever 
>> background you have. If the whole community start recognize some other 
>> tools (say WeChat) as recommended alternative communication method 
>> because there are many people there, ironically, it might be a way to 
>> break "diversity" and "openness" we want to embrace. 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
>> Using whatever social media (or tools) in a specific region due to any 
>> reason is not a problem. Anyone is free to use anything. Only thing we 
>> need to make sure is, if you want to communicate officially with the 
>> whole community, there is a very well defined and unified way to do 
>> it. This is currently IRC and ML. Some of Korean dev has difficulties 
>> to use IRC. 
> 
> Any chance you could clarify what kind of difficulties they are
> encountering?  As several TC members and others within this thread
> have already pointed out, that would help the community decide whether
> those difficulties can be addressed whilst keeping IRC, or whether
> it's worth considering replacing IRC with something else.
> 
>> However, there is not a perfect tool out there in this world, and we 
>> accept all the reason why the community selected IRC as official tool
>> But, that being said, There are some things I am facing with IRC from 
>> here in Korea
>>
>> As a person from Asia, I do have some of pain points. Because of time 
>> differences, often, I have to do achieve searching since most of 
>> conversations happened while I am sleeping. IRC is not a good tool to 
>> perform "search backlog". Although there is message archive you can 
>> dig, it is still hard. This is a problem. I do love to see any 
>> technical solution for me to efficiently and easily go through irc 
>> backlog, like most of modern chat tools. 
> 
> Would this particular pain point be solved by providing a friendly web 
> search interface to the IRC log archives?  BTW it is already possible to 
> search them via google, by including
>     site:eavesdrop.openstack.org
> 
> in the search, but of course this is not very user-friendly.
>> Secondly, IRC is not a popular one even in dev community here in 
>> Korea. In addition, in order to properly use irc, you need to do extra 
>> work, something like setting up bouncing server. I had to do google 
>> search to figure out how to use it. 
> 
> I agree - this is probably the biggest issue with IRC, not just in Korea 
> or even in Asia, but globally.  People are much more aware of this pain 
> now because modern alternatives such as Slack, HipChat, Rocket.chat, 
> Matrix etc. all solve that problem without requiring any extra effort 
> from the user.
>> In that sense, It would be great to have OpenStack community provided, 
>> simplified and well-written, written in multiple language, IRC guide 
>> docs. 
> 
> Yes, if we stick with IRC then this certainly makes sense.
>> Alternatively, if OpenStack community can provide a good web-based irc 
>> client tool, that would be fantastic. 
> 
> It already exists: Matrix's web client Riot has a built-in bridge with 
> Freenode:
>     https://opensource.com/article/17/5/introducing-riot-IRC
> 
> Thinking further ahead, I have previously floated the idea of the 
> community switching to Matrix altogether:
>     
> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-sigs/2018-March/000332.html
> 
> I have to be honest: right now, whilst Matrix's usability is actually 
> pretty good, it still needs a bit of work before it gets as slick as 
> something like Slack.  In particular, performance of the Freenode bridge 
> is not always great.  But like IRC, Matrix is all open source with a 
> decentralized architecture, so I'm fairly confident that with a bit of 
> investment from the OpenStack community (whether that's financial or 
> developer resources), we could get it good enough for what we want. And 
> I think that would help push for the best outcome for the wider FLOSS 
> community outside OpenStack and the rest of the world, too.
>> As I described the above, we can certainly have a healthy discussion 
>> on what different and real problems we are facing from Asia. However, 
>> I don't think this TC resolution is good way to do that. 
> 
> Thanks a lot for sharing your perspective!  IMHO it's very helpful.
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