<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Follow-up thought:<br><br>> This concept has never been questioned anywhere I can search, so I have a
feeling I'm missing something big here. Maybe other ways are too
complicated to implement?<br><br></div><div>This topic does get brought up from time to time, but in different areas under different names. Off of the top of my head, a past discussion about quota management and how one could limit the amount of SSD disk space a user could use while giving them larger access to a spindle disk.<br><br>Being able to manage different characteristics about a resource (disk size vs disk IOPS) is a complicated thing to do and it's certainly not a solved problem. I don't want to say something like "flavors are just the accepted norm" because that would be doing them a huge injustice, but I did want to follow-up and say that you're not alone if you've hit issues with the way resources are bundled. :)<br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:31 PM, Joe Topjian <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joe@topjian.net" target="_blank">joe@topjian.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Another benefit of flavors is that they provide ease of use. While there are users who are confident enough to spec out each instance they launch, I work with a lot of users who would feel overwhelmed if they had to do this. Providing a set of recommended instance specs can go a long way to lowering the barrier of usage.<br></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Mike Lowe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jomlowe@iu.edu" target="_blank">jomlowe@iu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>How would you account for heterogeneous node types? Flavors by convention put the hardware generation in the name as the digit.<br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><div class="m_-8372105609533793137h5"><div><br>On Mar 15, 2017, at 11:42 PM, Kris G. Lindgren <<a href="mailto:klindgren@godaddy.com" target="_blank">klindgren@godaddy.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div class="m_-8372105609533793137m_-4716468631329645687WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">So how do you bill for someone when you have a 24 core, 256GB ram, with 3TB of disk machine - and someone creates a 1 core, 512MB ram, 2.9TB disk – flavor? Are you going to charge them
same amount as if they created a 24 core, 250GB instances with 1TB of disk? Because both of those flavors make it practically impossible to use that hardware for another VM. Thus, to you they have exactly the same cost.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">With free-for all flavor sizes your bin packing goes to shit and you are left with inefficiently used hardware. With free for all flavor sizes how can you make sure that your large ram
instances go to sku’s optimized to handle those large ram VM’s?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_______<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Kris Lindgren<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Senior Linux Systems Engineer<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">GoDaddy</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Matthew Kaufman <<a href="mailto:mkfmncom@gmail.com" target="_blank">mkfmncom@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:42 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"Fox, Kevin M" <<a href="mailto:Kevin.Fox@pnnl.gov" target="_blank">Kevin.Fox@pnnl.gov</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>OpenStack Operators <<a href="mailto:openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-operators@lists.ope<wbr>nstack.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Openstack-operators] Flavors<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:Arial;color:black">Screw the short answer -- that is annoying to read, and it doesn't simplify BILLING from a CapEx/OpEx perspective, so please - wtf?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;color:black">Anyway, Vladimir - I love your question and have always wanted the same thing.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Fox, Kevin M <<a href="mailto:Kevin.Fox@pnnl.gov" target="_blank">Kevin.Fox@pnnl.gov</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">I think the really short answer is something like: It greatly simplifies scheduling and billing.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> Vladimir Prokofev [<a href="mailto:v@prokofev.me" target="_blank">v@prokofev.me</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 15, 2017 2:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Operators<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Openstack-operators] Flavors</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">A question of curiosity - why do we even need flavors?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I do realise that we need a way to provide instance configuration, but why use such a rigid construction? Wouldn't it be more flexible to provide instance configuration as a set of parameters(metadata), and if
you need some presets - well, use a preconfigured set of them as a flavor in your front-end(web/CLI client parameters)?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Suppose commercial customer has an instance with high storage IO load. Currently they have only one option - upsize instance to a flavor that provides higher IOPS. But ususally provider has a limited amount of
flavors for purchase, and they upscale everything for a price. So instead of paying only for IOPS customers are pushed to pay for whole package. This is good from revenue point of view, but bad for customer's bank account and marketing(i.e. product architecure
limits).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">This applies to every resource - vCPU, RAM, storage, networking, etc - everything is controlled by flavor.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">This concept has never been questioned anywhere I can search, so I have a feeling I'm missing something big here. Maybe other ways are too complicated to implement?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">So does anyone has any idea - why such rigid approach as flavors instead of something more flexible?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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