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<div class="">On 18 Jan 2017, at 23:20, Matt Jarvis <<a href="mailto:matt@mattjarvis.org.uk" class="">matt@mattjarvis.org.uk</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">I think one of the problems we're seeing now is that a lot of operators have actually already scratched some of these missing functionality itches like quota management and project nesting by handling those scenarios in external management
systems. I know we certainly did at DataCentred. That probably means these things don't surface enough to upstream as requirements, whereas for new users who aren't necessarily in the loop with community communication they may well be creating friction to
adoption. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
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<div><br class="">
</div>
For the quota management, I think the first discussions were in the Hong Kong summit around the Boson project and this has moved backwards and forwards between services, libraries and improving the code. While the user need is relatively simple to state, these
are not simple problems to solve so it is often difficult for the items to get to the priority lists.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>One of the difficulties we have found is that we could get staff for a project such as quota management for a short period (e.g. 1 year). However, from the initial specification to code acceptance is often an extended period so these sort of changes can
get stalled but the people contributing need to show results for their work (such as a thesis).</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>From the scientific working group discussions, the quota and nesting discussions have come up regularly so the requirements are still there.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Tim</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:06 PM, Sam Morrison <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a href="mailto:sorrison@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sorrison@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">I would love it if all the projects policy.json was actually usable. Too many times the policy.json isn’t the only place where authN happens with lots of hard coded is_admin etc.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Just the ability to to have a certain role to a certain thing would be amazing. It makes it really hard to have read only users to generate reports with that we can show our funders how much people use our openstack cloud.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers,</div>
<div class="">Sam</div>
<div class="">(non-enterprise)</div>
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 18 Jan 2017, at 6:10 am, Melvin Hillsman <<a href="mailto:mrhillsman@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">mrhillsman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="m_6737705890964690586Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Well said, as a consequence of this thread being on the mailing list, I hope that we can get
<i class="">all</i> operators, end-users, and app-developers to respond. If you are aware of folks who do not fall under the "enterprise" label please encourage them directly to respond; I would encourage everyone to do the same.<br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Silence Dogood <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a href="mailto:matt@nycresistor.com" target="_blank" class="">matt@nycresistor.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr" class="">I can see a huge problem with your contributing operators... all of them are enterprise.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">enterprise needs are radically different from small to medium deployers who openstack has traditionally failed to work well for.</div>
</div>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Piet Kruithof <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a href="mailto:pkruithofjr@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">pkruithofjr@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Sorry for the late reply, but wanted to add a few things.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">OpenStack UX did suggest to the foundation that the community needs a second survey that focuses exclusively on operators. The rationale was that the user survey is primarily focused on marketing data and there isn't really a ton of space for
additional questions that focuses exclusively on operators. We also recommended a second survey called a MaxDiff study that enabled operators to identify areas of improvement and also rate them in order of importance including distance.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">There is also an etherpad that asked operators three priorities for OpenStack:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-openstackux-enterprise-goals" target="_blank" class="">https://etherpad.openstack.org<wbr class="">/p/mitaka-openstackux-enterpri<wbr class="">se-goals</a><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It was distributed about a year ago, so I'm not sure how much of it was relevant. The list does include responses from folks at TWC, Walmart, Pacific Northwest Labs, BestBuy, Comcast, NTTi3 and the US government. It might be a good place for
the group to add their own improvements as well as "+" other peoples suggestions.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">There is also a list of studies that have been conducted with operators on behalf of the community. The study included quotas, deployment and information needs. Note that the information needs study extended beyond docs to things like the need
to easily google solutions and the need for SMEs.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Hope this is helpful. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Piet</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">___</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">OPENSTACK USER EXPERIENCE STATUS</div>
<div class="">The goal of this presentation is to provide an overview of research that was conducted on behalf of the OpenStack community. All of the studies conducted on behalf of the OpenStack community were included in this presentation. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Why this research matters:</div>
<div class="">Consistency across projects has been identified as an issue in the user survey.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Study design:</div>
<div class="">This usability study, conducted at the OpenStack Austin Summit, observed 10 operators as they attempted to perform standard tasks in the OpenStack client.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1hZYCOADJ1gXiFHT1ahwv8-tDIQCSingu7zqSMbKFZ_Y/edit#slide=id.p" target="_blank" class="">https://docs.google.com/presen<wbr class="">tation/d/1hZYCOADJ1gXiFHT1ahwv<wbr class="">8-tDIQCSingu7zqSMbKFZ_Y/edit#s<wbr class="">lide=id.p</a> <br class="">
</div>
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</div>
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</div>
<div class="">___</div>
<div class="">USER RESEARCH RESULTS: SEARCHLIGHT/HORIZON INTEGRATION</div>
<div class="">Why this research matters:</div>
<div class="">The Searchlight plug-in for Horizon aims to provide a consistent search API across OpenStack resources. To validate its suitability and ease of use, we evaluated it with cloud operators who use Horizon in their role.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Study design:</div>
<div class="">Five operators performed tasks that explored Searchlight’s filters, full-text capability, and multi-term search.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TfF2sm98Iha-bNwBJrCTCp6k49zde1Z8I9Qthx1moIM/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" class="">https://docs.google.com/presen<wbr class="">tation/d/1TfF2sm98Iha-bNwBJrCT<wbr class="">Cp6k49zde1Z8I9Qthx1moIM/edit?u<wbr class="">sp=sharing</a> </div>
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</div>
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</div>
<div class="">___</div>
<div class="">CLOUD OPERATOR INTERVIEWS: QUOTA MANAGEMENT AT PRODUCTION SCALE</div>
<div class="">Why this research matters:</div>
<div class="">The study was initiated following operator feedback identifying quotas as a challenge to manage at scale.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Study design:</div>
<div class="">One-on-one interviews with cloud operators sought to understand their methods for managing quotas at production scale.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1J6-8MwUGGOwy6-A_w1EaQcZQ1Bq2YWeB-kw4vCFxbwM/edit" target="_blank" class="">https://docs.google.com/presen<wbr class="">tation/d/1J6-8MwUGGOwy6-A_w1Ea<wbr class="">QcZQ1Bq2YWeB-kw4vCFxbwM/edit</a><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">___</div>
<div class="">CLOUD OPERATOR INTERVIEWS: INFORMATION NEEDS</div>
<div class="">Why this research matters:</div>
<div class="">Documentation has been consistently identified as an issue by operators during the user survey. However, we wanted to understand the entire workflow associated with identifying and consuming information to resolve issues associated with operating
production clouds. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Study design:</div>
<div class="">This research consisted of interviews with seven cloud operators from different industries with varying levels of experience to determine how they find solutions to problems that arise.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1LKxQx4Or4qOBwPQbt4jAZncGCLlk_Ez8ZRB_bGp19JU/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" class="">https://docs.google.com/presen<wbr class="">tation/d/1LKxQx4Or4qOBwPQbt4jA<wbr class="">ZncGCLlk_Ez8ZRB_bGp19JU/edit?u<wbr class="">sp=sharing</a> <br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">___</div>
<div class="">OPERATOR INTERVIEWS: DEPLOYMENT AT PRODUCTION</div>
<div class="">Why this research matters:</div>
<div class="">Deployment has been consistently identified as an issue by operators during the user survey and impacts both adoption and operations of OpenStack. We wanted to do a deep dive with operators to identify the specific issues impacting deployment.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Study design:</div>
<div class="">A series of 1:1 interviews that included included discussions around organizations, tools, workflows and pain points associated with deploying OpenStack.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/14UerMR4HrXKP_0NE_C-WJ16YQFzgetL1Tmym9FNFzpY/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" class="">https://docs.google.com/presen<wbr class="">tation/d/14UerMR4HrXKP_0NE_C-W<wbr class="">J16YQFzgetL1Tmym9FNFzpY/edit?u<wbr class="">sp=sharing</a> </div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">___</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">OPERATOR USABILITY: OPENSTACKCLIENT</div>
<div class="">Why this research matters:</div>
<div class="">Consistency across projects has been identified as an issue in the user survey.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Study design:</div>
<div class="">This usability study, conducted at the OpenStack Austin Summit, observed 10 operators as they attempted to perform standard tasks in the OpenStack client.</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1cBUJuLL9s7JQppVlDBBJMrNNpfqwdkHyfZFuwY6lNgM/edit#slide=id.g1a8df2eaf2_1_0" target="_blank" class="">https://docs.google.com/presen<wbr class="">tation/d/1cBUJuLL9s7JQppVlDBBJ<wbr class="">MrNNpfqwdkHyfZFuwY6lNgM/edit#s<wbr class="">lide=id.g1a8df2eaf2_1_0</a> <br class="">
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<div class="">
<div class="m_6737705890964690586m_6301438429012277227h5"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:07 AM, Jonathan Proulx <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a href="mailto:jon@csail.mit.edu" target="_blank" class="">jon@csail.mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br class="">
What Tim said :)<br class="">
<br class="">
my ordering:<br class="">
<br class="">
1) Preemptable Instances -- this would be huge and life changing I'd<br class="">
give up any other improvements to get this.<br class="">
<br class="">
2) Deeper utilization of nested projects -- mostly we find ways to<br class="">
mange with out this but it would be great to have.<br class="">
<br class="">
A) to allow research groups (our internal fiscal/administrative<br class="">
divisions) to sub divide quota allocations accordinf to their own<br class="">
priorities on a self serve basis (provided proper RBAC configs)<br class="">
B) to answer show back questions more easily. Currently with flat<br class="">
projects individual research groups have multiple openstack<br class="">
projects, by convention we mange to usually be able to aggregaet<br class="">
them in reporting, but deing able to show susage by a parent and<br class="">
all it 's childeren woudl be very useful<br class="">
<br class="">
3) Quota improvements -- this is important but we've learned to deal<br class="">
with it<br class="">
<br class="">
-Jon<br class="">
<br class="">
On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:10:40AM +0000, Tim Bell wrote:<br class="">
:There are a couple of items which have not been able to make it to the top priority for recent releases which would greatly simplify our day to day work with the users and make the cloud more flexible. The background use cases are described in
<a href="https://openstack-in-production.blogspot.fr/2016/04/resource-management-at-cern.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">
https://openstack-in-productio<wbr class="">n.blogspot.fr/2016/04/resource<wbr class="">-management-at-cern.html</a><br class="">
:<br class="">
:<br class="">
:- Quota management improvements<br class="">
:<br class="">
:o Manual interventions are often required to sync the current usage with the OpenStack view<br class="">
:<br class="">
:o Nested projects are now in Keystone but is limited support in other projects for the end user benefit, such as delegation of quota for sub-projects<br class="">
:<br class="">
:- Nova pre-emptible instances (<a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104883/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://review.openstack.org/<wbr class="">#/c/104883/</a>) to give spot market functionality<br class="">
:<br class="">
:o We want to run our cloud at near 100% utilisation but this requires rapid ejection of lower priority VMs<br class="">
:<br class="">
:That having been said, I also fully support key priorities currently being worked on such as cells v2 and placement.<br class="">
:<br class="">
:Tim<br class="">
:<br class="">
:From: Melvin Hillsman <<a href="mailto:mrhillsman@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">mrhillsman@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
:Date: Friday, 13 January 2017 at 02:30<br class="">
:To: openstack-operators <<a href="mailto:openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank" class="">openstack-operators@lists.ope<wbr class="">nstack.org</a>><br class="">
:Subject: [Openstack-operators] What would you like in Pike?<br class="">
:<br class="">
:Hey everyone,<br class="">
<span class="">:<br class="">
:I am hoping to get a dialogue started to gain some insight around things Operators, Application Developers, and End Users would like to see happen in Pike. If you had a dedicated environment, dedicated team, and freedom to choose how you deployed, new features,
older features, enhancements, etc, and were not required to deal with customer/client tickets, calls, and maintenances, could keep a good feedback loop between your team and the upstream community of any project, what would like to make happen or work on hoping
the next release of OpenStack had/included/changed/enhanced/<wbr class="">removed…?<br class="">
</span>:<br class="">
:Kind regards,<br class="">
<span class="">:--<br class="">
:Melvin Hillsman<br class="">
:<br class="">
:Ops Technical Lead<br class="">
:OpenStack Innovation Center<br class="">
:<br class="">
:<br class="">
:<br class="">
</span>:<a href="mailto:mrhillsman@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">mrhillsman@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:mrhillsman@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">m<wbr class="">rhillsman@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
<span class="">:phone: <a href="tel:%28210%29%20312-1267" value="+12103121267" target="_blank" class="">
(210) 312-1267</a><br class="">
:mobile: <a href="tel:%28210%29%20413-1659" value="+12104131659" target="_blank" class="">
(210) 413-1659</a><br class="">
:Learner | Ideation | Belief | Responsibility | Command<br class="">
:<br class="">
:<a href="http://osic.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://osic.org</a><br class="">
</span>:<br class="">
:<br class="">
<br class="">
:_____________________________<wbr class="">__________________<br class="">
<span class="">:OpenStack-operators mailing list<br class="">
:<a href="mailto:OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank" class="">OpenStack-operators@lists.ope<wbr class="">nstack.org</a><br class="">
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<br class="">
</span>--<br class="">
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<div class="">Pieter C Kruithof Jr, MS, CPE</div>
<div class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">PTL, OpenStack UX project</span><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class=""><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pkruithofjr" target="_blank" class="">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pkr<wbr class="">uithofjr</a><br class="">
<br class="">
<a href="tel:(512)%20576-2844" value="+15125762844" target="_blank" class="">512 576-2844</a><br class="">
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-- <br class="">
<div class="m_6737705890964690586gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Kind regards,<br class="">
<br class="">
Melvin Hillsman<br class="">
Ops Technical Lead<br class="">
OpenStack Innovation Center<br class="">
<br class="">
<a href="mailto:mrhillsman@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">mrhillsman@gmail.com</a><br class="">
phone: <a href="tel:(210)%20312-1267" value="+12103121267" target="_blank" class="">
(210) 312-1267</a><br class="">
mobile: <a href="tel:(210)%20413-1659" value="+12104131659" target="_blank" class="">
(210) 413-1659</a><br class="">
<a href="http://osic.org/" target="_blank" class="">http://osic.org</a><br class="">
<br class="">
<span class="">Learner | Ideation | Belief | Responsibility | Command</span><br class="">
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