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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I hear you, Matt. TripleO is great, and v useful for what it is. But I agree that in our (been-there-done-that) experience, it was never
intended to be a production-ready environment - and it isn’t. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">Ø<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]>I like the idea of OOO<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I do too - we all do! But in a production environment it’s currently (imho) too difficult & too volatile, and it’s hard to see how that
can be fixed without a fundamental shake up.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Wingdings"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">Ø<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]>It's amazing how many times i've seen people try to reinvent this wheel, and how many times they've outright ignored the lessons of those who went before.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Yep, I hear ya. Things like installing the node with an operating system have already been done 9,000 times. Why reinvent Cobbler, when
the real Cobbler already does that? Or Crowbar, or whatever? Makes no sense.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If you have ideas let me know directly (anyone!). I’m right in the middle of HPE’s OpenStack install/upgrade work and would really like
to hear where you want us to go.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Joe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",serif"> Silence Dogood [mailto:matt@nycresistor.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 03 August 2016 16:09<br>
<b>To:</b> Fegan, Joe <joe.fegan@hpe.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openstack-operators] Who's using TripleO in production?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">the v1 helion product was a joke for deployment at scale. I still don't know whose hair brained idea it was to use OOO there and then. but it was hair brained at best. From my perspective the biggest issue with helion, was insane architecture
decisions like that one being made with no adherence to the constraints of reality.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I recall at around early 2015 or so, at an operators meetup someone asking if anyone was using OOO and the response was a room full of laughter. And yet by this point helion had already decided to proceed with it, despite their own people
telling them it would take years to make usable.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"></rant><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I like the idea of OOO but it takes time to harden that sort of deployment scenario. And trying to build a generic tool to hit hardware in the wild is an exercise in futility, to a point. Crowbar actually kind of made sense in so far
as it was designed to let you write the connector bits you'd need to write. I figure over time OOO will be forced into that sort of pattern as every automated deployment framework has been for the past 20 years or so. It's amazing how many times i've seen
people try to reinvent this wheel, and how many times they've outright ignored the lessons of those who went before.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-Matt<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Fegan, Joe <<a href="mailto:joe.fegan@hpe.com" target="_blank">joe.fegan@hpe.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Hi folks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">I agree. HP(E) were major contributors to TripleO in the early days, and our V1 Helion product was based on it. But, as Dan says, we wrote a new OpenStack installer
from scratch for V2+. Mostly in Ansible. The sources are up on GitHub with an Apache2 license - feel free to take and use them. We call it HLM (Helion Lifecycle Manager) but you can call it whatever you want ;)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Our production experience and customer feedback with V1, TripleO were and are … “eventful”. And hard to debug / restart / continue. That was the main motivation
for a newer and better install/upgrade mechanism. Of course I’m biased lol ;) The group working on it in HPE are all ex-public cloud and/or HPC production background, so we hope that we always have the real user perspective in mind.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Joe.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
OpenStack-operators mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org">OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators" target="_blank">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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