[Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [Telco][NFV][infra] Review process of TelcoWG use cases

George Shuklin george.shuklin at gmail.com
Fri Feb 6 20:32:24 UTC 2015

On 02/06/2015 09:14 PM, Marcos Garcia wrote:
>>>> It does look like that.  However, the intent here is to allow 
>>>> non-developer
>>>> members of a Telco provide the use cases they need to accomplish. 
>>>> This way
>>>> the Telco WG can identify gaps and file a proper spec into each of the
>>>> OpenStack projects.
>>> Indeed, what we're trying to do is help the non-developer members of 
>>> the group articulate their use cases and tease them out to a level 
>>> that is meaningful to someone who is not immersed in 
>>> telecommunications themselves. In this way we hope to in turn be 
>>> able to create meaningful specifications for the actual OpenStack 
>>> projects impacted.
>>> It's possible that some of these will be truly cross-project and 
>>> therefore head to openstack-specs but initial indications seem to be 
>>> that most will either be specific to a project, or cross only a 
>>> couple of projects (e.g. nova and neutron) - I am sure someone will 
>>> come up with some more exceptions to this statement to prove me 
>>> wrong :).
>> Ok, I definitively out of telco business, and I indeed openstack 
>> operator. My first question: what you want to do, what problems you 
>> want to solve?
> IMO most of the Telco's are asking Openstack developers to work in the 
> following big areas (the first 3 are basically Carrier Grade):
> - Performance on the virtualization layer (NUMA, etc) - get 
> baremetal-like performance in big VM's
> - QoS and capacity management - to get deterministic behavior, always 
> the same regardless of the load
> - Reliability (via HA, duplicate systems, live-migration, etc) - 
> achieve 99'999% uptime,
> - Management interfaces (OAM), compatible with their current OSS/BSS 
> systems (i.e. SNMP traps, usage metering for billing)  - to don't 
> reinvent the wheel, they have other things to manage too (i.e. legacy)

Most of this sounds really interesting for any operators. May be except 
of NUMA. Buy why telco want more performance? Few percent of loss for 
manageability - most companies accept this.

HA is achievable, QoS may be, duplication is ok. But of deterministic 
live migrations... Why telco want it? If system have own way to 
rebalance load, there is a more simple way: to terminate one instance 
and to buid new. Btw I really want to see deterministic way to fight 
with 'No valid hosts found'.

>> I was on one 'NVF' session in Paris, and I've expected it to be about 
>> SR-IOV and using VF (virtual functions) of network cards for guest 
>> acceleration. But instead it was something I just didn't got at all 
>> (sorry, Ericsson). So, what are you want to do? Not in terms of 
>> 'business solution', but on very low level. Run some specific 
>> appliance? Add VoIP support to Neutron? Make something differ?
> It's all about SLA's stablished by telco's customers: government, 
> military and healthcare systems. SLA's are crazy there. And as an IT 
> operators, you'll all understand those requirements, so it's really 
> not that different compared to Telco operators.
> Just remember that ETSI NFV is more than all that: you probably saw 
> Ericsson speaking about high-level telco functions: MANO, VIM, EMS and 
> VNFs, etc... that's beyond the scope of you guys, and probably outside 
> the scope of all of the Openstack world.. that's why OPNFV exists.
I will be a bit skeptic. It will not work with current quality of the 
development process ('devstack syndrome').  I just done digging in yet 
another funny nova 'half-bug' around migration and what I see in the 
code is... to agile for high SLA systems. May be they (telcos) can 
really change this, and I really hope, but up to now... Thousands of 
loosly coupled systems with own bugs and world vision. Just today I 
found 'hanged' network interface (any operation with netsocket goes to 
'D' and can not be terminated) due ixgbe/netconsole bug. 99.99% in those 
conditions? I just do not believe. 

About Ericcson's presentation - yes, I was inspired by details of 
previous Rackspace's presentation about depth of the <s>hell</s> 
openvswitch, and suddenly all around starts to talk foreign language.
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