[Openstack-operators] A Hypervisor supporting containers

matt matt at nycresistor.com
Fri May 2 16:27:37 UTC 2014

most operators do not attend summits.


On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Stefano Maffulli <stefano at openstack.org>wrote:

> On 05/02/2014 05:47 AM, Narayan Desai wrote:
> > tl;dr: openstack is starting to feel like a tv show called "when
> > developers attack"
> I respect your opinion but I strongly disagree with it: there is no
> attack, there is no "fight" between developers and operators. There is
> friction but no deliberate attempt to harm (as the term 'attack'
> implies). Quite the contrary is true instead: I can see deliberate
> attempts to oil and reduce friction at different spots in our community.
> There is a strong and concerted effort to make sure that operators'
> opinions are taken in proper consideration by OpenStack developers. The
> OpenStack Foundation started regular meetings with operators to collect
> feedback and identify issues. The first happened a couple months ago,
> another one is being scheduled, at 6 months interval. For quite some
> time, during the Summits, the Foundation had dedicated Operators tracks
> and we keep introducing more operators-specific events (see Tom's
> earlier message).
> Outside of the Foundation, the developers community sent quite strong
> signals recently with the election of Michael Still, whose platform as
> PTL is all about listening to people and "producing reliable production
> grade code"[1]. Russell Bryant's effort to change how Nova blueprints
> are discussed and approved also is a strong signal from the developers
> that they listen to operators and want to have their involvement.
> I can see why you're upset though: change is slow to happen, this effort
> may be too little, too late. Objectively though, look at the numbers:
> thousands of occasional developers, hundreds of committed developers
> need to be steered while running.
> > We've seen features proposed for removal (not just in nova) because of
> > lack of testing coverage. Features that have been integrated for years,
> > that we've been using in production *for years without any problems*.
> >
> > Getting new code integrated is a nightmare. Take a look at this:
> > https://review.openstack.org/#/c/65113/
> That's an unfortunate case but I read this differently from you. To me
> this is a typical case of a blueprint approved without a proper
> discussion and planning phase. Russell and Mark McClain+Kyle Mestery put
> forward a fix for this sort of issues already for Nova[2] and
> Neutron[3]; let's see how these work out in Juno.
> > The feedback loops from users/ops continue to be broken. Tim's efforts
> > on behalf of the user committee are important steps in the right
> > direction, but the developer culture is openstack culture in a deep way.
> > Operators continue to be on the outside.
> What else would you suggest we can all do besides what is already being
> put in place?
> Thanks,
> Stef
> [1]
> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/031305.html
> [2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints#Nova
> [3] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints#Neutron
> --
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