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<p><a href="https://zanata.atlassian.net/browse/ZNTA-727"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">https://zanata.atlassian.net/browse/ZNTA-727</font></a><br>
<font size="2" face="sans-serif">Let's wait for their response.</font><br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="sans-serif">Best regards<br>
Ying Chun Guo (Daisy)<br>
</font><br>
<br>
<tt><font size="2">Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM@IBMCN wrote on 2015/10/13 17:21:11:<br>
<br>
> From: Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM@IBMCN</font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="2">> To: Akihiro Motoki <amotoki@gmail.com></font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="2">> Cc: Openstack-i18n <openstack-i18n@lists.openstack.org></font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="2">> Date: 2015/10/13 17:25</font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="2">> Subject: Re: [Openstack-i18n] Approved & rejected translations after<br>
> versions merging</font></tt><br>
<tt><font size="2">> <br>
> Thank you for deep thinking.<br>
> They are all useful information to the team.<br>
> See my comments below.<br>
> <br>
> Akihiro Motoki <amotoki@gmail.com> wrote on 2015/10/13 14:01:36:<br>
> <br>
> > From: Akihiro Motoki <amotoki@gmail.com><br>
> > To: Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM@IBMCN<br>
> > Cc: Openstack-i18n <openstack-i18n@lists.openstack.org><br>
> > Date: 2015/10/13 14:02<br>
> > Subject: Re: [Openstack-i18n] Approved & rejected translations after<br>
> > versions merging<br>
> > <br>
> > Hi Daisy,<br>
> > <br>
> > Your test result on version merging below is true, and I found all I<br>
> > encountered<br>
> > are based on this behavior. I think these behaviors may sometimes <br>
> beconfusing,<br>
> > so I summarize my lessons learned.<br>
> > <br>
> > I would like to know opinions from all.<br>
> > Honestly speaking I don't have a good workaround for Case 1.<br>
> > <br>
> > ----------------<br>
> > <br>
> > Lessons I learned are:<br>
> > <br>
> > (Case 1)<br>
> > If you made some changes in stable-xxx version but still mark them as<br>
> > "rejected",<br>
> > these changes will not be merged back into the master version.<br>
> > <br>
> > *** As a practice, you should not remain "rejected" strings in<br>
> > stable-xxxx version.<br>
> > Otherwise we manually need to "reject" them in the master version<br>
> > again. ***<br>
> > <br>
> > It means if you don't have enough time to consider better translations<br>
> > for rejected strings<br>
> > in stable-xxxx version, you need to mark them as "rejected" again in<br>
> > the master version.<br>
> > I don't have a good workaround for this except encouraging <br>
> finishing reviews.<br>
> ><br>
> <br>
> I don't have too.<br>
> When copying translations and merging versions, Zanata will only handle<br>
> the translated and approved translations. So "rejected" and "fuzzy" <br>
> translations<br>
> will not be copied.<br>
> I think we could discuss with Zanata team about whether it is a <br>
> common requirement.<br>
> If it's a common requirement, when copying trans, we want the review results<br>
> to be copied too, let's raise a new requirement to Zanata team.<br>
> If Zanata team don't think it's a common requirement, we could ask them<br>
> to provide either CLI or API, let's write scripts to do the copy by ourselves.<br>
> <br>
> > (Case 2)<br>
> > If you do nothing for a string in stable-xxx and reject a<br>
> > corresponding string in the master branch,<br>
> > the "rejected" string in the master branch will be reset to<br>
> > "translated" when merging back<br>
> > stable-xxx version. (Note that a change made in a master version will<br>
> > be overridden<br>
> > by the untouched string in stable-xxx if you mark the changed string<br>
> > in the master version as "rejected")<br>
> > <br>
> > *** You should not work on the master version after branching<br>
> > stable-xxx branch. ***<br>
> > <br>
> > ----------------<br>
> > <br>
> > Why I encountered?<br>
> > <br>
> > For Case 1, I tried to focus on avoiding shipping non-good<br>
> > translations in Liberty release.<br>
> > I knew I had no enough time to improve them. As a result, I was forced<br>
> > to reject again the same strings<br>
> > in the master version. I have no idea on what I could do better.<br>
> > <br>
> > For Case 2, both master and stable-liberty versions were kept open for<br>
> > some resources.<br>
> > I used shortcut links to access translation pages directly, so I did<br>
> > not notice stable-liberty version.<br>
> > It seems I started IBM translation reviews too early.<br>
> > <br>
> > ----------------<br>
> > What we can do for the next release?<br>
> > <br>
> > For Case 1:<br>
> > I have no idea except finishing reviews and cleaning up all rejected<br>
> > strings, but<br>
> > Only rejecting strings may force reviewers to reject them again.<br>
> > It is a resource problem. Is the only way to add more reviewers?<br>
> > <br>
> > For Case 2:<br>
> > We should mark the master version as read-only at the same time we<br>
> > create a stable-liberty<br>
> > if we plan to merge back stable-xxxx version into the master version.<br>
> > <br>
> > I hope the community find a good way.<br>
> > <br>
> > Best Regards,<br>
> > Akihiro<br>
> > <br>
> > -----<br>
> > <br>
> > Personally speaking, I have no interest in translating server and<br>
> > client projects<br>
> > at the moment based on our survey result (as my translation effort).<br>
> > It might be changed if Horizon starts to use server-side <br>
> > translations directly.<br>
> > I am okay to ship unreviewed translations for server side project<br>
> > AS LONG AS they are not visible in default configurations.<br>
> > If visible by default but we have no enough resource to check them, we<br>
> > may be better<br>
> > to consider not shipping translations based on each language team decision.<br>
> > <br>
> > 2015-10-09 1:49 GMT+09:00 Akihiro Motoki <amotoki@gmail.com>:<br>
> > > During checking "ceilometer" Japanese translation, I found another issue.<br>
> > > I noticed some rejected strings in the master branch is overridden by<br>
> > > old translation in stable-liberty<br>
> > > and the status was reset to "Translated". I suspect it is a<br>
> > > side-effect of merging stable-liberty.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > <a href="https://translate.openstack.org/webtrans/translate?">https://translate.openstack.org/webtrans/translate?</a><br>
> > <br>
> project=ceilometer&iteration=master&localeId=ja&locale=ja#view:doc;doc:ceilometer<br>
> > > resource ID 93fc08cfc55420bbf5e5b340296a3905 is an example.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > The detail situation is as follows.<br>
> > > - The string was copied from ibm-translation-for-review to master<br>
> > > branch at Sep 21.<br>
> > > - It was also copied to stable-liberty branch when stable-liberty <br>
> > was created.<br>
> > > - On Sep 27, I change the string in the master branch by using<br>
> > > "Project-wide search and replace".<br>
> > > (Note that changes in "Project-wide search and replace" are not<br>
> > > recorded as "Translated"<br>
> > > and they are recorded as "Rejected" for new strings)<br>
> > > - On Oct 08, the string was overridden by the from stable-liberty branch<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Apparently the string in the master branch is newer than the<br>
> > > corresponding string in stable-liberty branch.<br>
> > > I wonder why it was overridden.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > The following are the history both in master and stable-liberty branches.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > In master branch, (a lower one is older)<br>
> > ><br>
> > > - Tom Cocozzello created a Translated revision<br>
> > > パイプライン %(pipeline)s: パラメーター %(param)s を使用して変換プ<br>
> > ログラム・瘢雹インスタンス %(name)s をセットアップします<br>
> > > 08/10/15 22:17 Revision 3<br>
> > > Merge version: translation copied from project 'ceilometer', version<br>
> > > 'stable-liberty', document 'ceilometer', author 'Tom Cocozzello'<br>
> > > - Akihiro Motoki created a Rejected revision<br>
> > > パイプライン %(pipeline)s: パラメーター %(param)s を使用して変換プ<br>
> > ログラムインスタンス %(name)s をセットアップします<br>
> > > 27/09/15 23:50<br>
> > > - Mie Yamamoto created a Rejected revision<br>
> > > パイプライン %(pipeline)s: パラメーター %(param)s を使用して変換プ<br>
> > ログラム・瘢雹インスタンス %(name)s をセットアップします<br>
> > > 27/09/15 09:30<br>
> > > - Mie Yamamoto left a comment<br>
> > > 中黒（・瘢雹）は使用しない<br>
> > > 27/09/15 09:30<br>
> > > - Tom Cocozzello created a Translated revision<br>
> > > パイプライン %(pipeline)s: パラメーター %(param)s を使用して変換プ<br>
> > ログラム・瘢雹インスタンス %(name)s をセットアップします<br>
> > > 21/09/15 22:27<br>
> > > Copy translation: translation copied from project 'ceilometer',<br>
> > > version 'ibm-translation-for-review', document 'ceilometer', author<br>
> > > 'Tom Cocozzello'<br>
> > ><br>
> > > In stable-liberty branch, only one history.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > - Tom Cocozzello created a Translated revision<br>
> > > パイプライン %(pipeline)s: パラメーター %(param)s を使用して変換プ<br>
> > ログラム・瘢雹インスタンス %(name)s をセットアップします<br>
> > > 21/09/15 22:27 Revision 1<br>
> > > Copy version: translation copied from project 'ceilometer', version<br>
> > > 'ibm-translation-for-review', document 'ceilometer', author 'Tom<br>
> > > Cocozzello'<br>
> > ><br>
> > > 2015-10-09 0:57 GMT+09:00 Ying Chun Guo <guoyingc@cn.ibm.com>:<br>
> > >> Akihiro Motoki <amotoki@gmail.com> wrote on 10/08/2015 10:37:21 PM:<br>
> > >><br>
> > >>> From: Akihiro Motoki <amotoki@gmail.com><br>
> > >>> To: Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM@IBMCN<br>
> > >>> Cc: Openstack-i18n <openstack-i18n@lists.openstack.org><br>
> > >>> Date: 10/08/2015 10:38 PM<br>
> > >>> Subject: Re: [Openstack-i18n] Approved & rejected translations after<br>
> > >>> versions merging<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Thanks Daisy,<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> You are correct.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> I rechecked both master and stable-liberty translations more carefully<br>
> > >>> and it turned out it is a corner case.<br>
> > >>> I noticed all of such strings are rejected in both master and<br>
> > >>> stable-liberty<br>
> > >>> and most of them (all? I am not sure) are edited through "Project-<br>
> > >>> wide Search & Replace".<br>
> > >>> When we edit "rejected" strings with "Project-wide Search & Replace",<br>
> > >>> the strings still remains in "rejected" status.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> The lesson learned is valuable to the whole team.<br>
> > >> I didn't know the rejected strings still remain in "rejected"<br>
> > >> even they are updated.<br>
> > >> Thank you, Akihiro.<br>
> > >> We are all learning to play with Zanata.<br>
> > >> We will get better and better.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> It seems that I started to review nova translations too early and<br>
> > >>> unfortunately we cannot complete reviews due to the volume.<br>
> > >>> As a result, we hit "not a good practice" you said.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> I learned one practice that if we are not confident with addressing<br>
> > >>> "rejected" strings<br>
> > >>> which already exist in master branch, we should not touch such string,<br>
> > >>> I learned much more detail conditions, but perhaps it only <br>
> applies to me.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Thanks,<br>
> > >>> Akihiro<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> 2015-10-08 22:39 GMT+09:00 Ying Chun Guo <guoyingc@cn.ibm.com>:<br>
> > >>> I cannot agree with you, Akihiro.<br>
> > >>> When stable-liberty version was created, we set master version as "Read<br>
> > >>> Only".<br>
> > >>> Translators had to improve stable-liberty branch.<br>
> > >>> The corrections made in stable-liberty version is newer than the old<br>
> > >>> translations in master version.<br>
> > >>> So when I merged, the newer translations will be copied and replaced<br>
> > >>> the old translations.<br>
> > >>> So the corrections will be moved to the master version.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> But the rejections will not.<br>
> > >>> So it's not a good practise to only reject translations in stable-<br>
> > >>> liberty without input the correct translations.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Could you check in Nova master version?<br>
> > >>> I think your corrections to IBM translations should be moved to<br>
> > >>> master version.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Best regards<br>
> > >>> Ying Chun Guo (Daisy)<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Akihiro Motoki <amotoki@gmail.com> wrote on 10/08/2015 09:31:36 PM:<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> > From: Akihiro Motoki <amotoki@gmail.com><br>
> > >>> > To: Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM@IBMCN<br>
> > >>> > Cc: Openstack-i18n <openstack-i18n@lists.openstack.org><br>
> > >>> > Date: 10/08/2015 09:32 PM<br>
> > >>> > Subject: Re: [Openstack-i18n] Approved & rejected translations after<br>
> > >>> > versions merging<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > On a second thought, I start to think this can happen in every<br>
> > >>> > OpenStack release.<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > What can possibly happen?<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > Most reviews are done after RC1 is released. It means reviews and<br>
> > >>> > corrections are done in stable-xxxx branch.<br>
> > >>> > It is not a rare case that strings are also translated in the master<br>
> > >>> > branch.<br>
> > >>> > In this case, corrections in stable-xxxx branch will not be<br>
> > >>> > feedback-ed to the master branch<br>
> > >>> > and this means that translators/reviewers need to do the same thing<br>
> > >>> > again and can lead to<br>
> > >>> > inconsistent translations.<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > What can we do?<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > I don't think we have a general solution to this.<br>
> > >>> > Zanata's current behavior may work well in most cases, but does not<br>
> > >>> > work for us.<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > One possible solution is to allow language coordinators (or<br>
> > >>> > reviewers) to upload PO files.<br>
> > >>> > Language coordinators (or reviewers) can use diff tools locally and<br>
> > >>> > merge translations<br>
> > >>> > more efficiently. The demand may be different among languages.<br>
> > >>> > If they can upload PO files, we can cope with this lang by lang.<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > Thought?<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > Akihiro<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > 2015-10-08 19:37 GMT+09:00 Akihiro Motoki <amotoki@gmail.com>:<br>
> > >>> > Daisy,<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > Is there any way to apply modifications made in stable-liberty branch<br>
> > >>> > to the master branch?<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > We made a lot of modifications/fixes to strings from IBM translation<br>
> > >>> > contribution<br>
> > >>> > in stable-liberty branch. The master branch already has translations<br>
> > >>> > because<br>
> > >>> > it is contributed by IBM, so merging from liberty to master does<br>
> > >>> not help us.<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > It seems translators or language coordinator cannot upload PO files,<br>
> > >>> > so I cannot have a way to replace the master translation with the<br>
> > >>> > liberty version<br>
> > >>> > in a batch way.<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > We don't want to check >100 rejected strings and copy >100 modified<br>
> > >>> > strings<br>
> > >>> > from liberty manually.<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > Is there any suggestion?<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > Akihiro<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > 2015-10-03 2:12 GMT+09:00 Ying Chun Guo <guoyingc@cn.ibm.com>:<br>
> > >>> > Hi,<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > A translation could be approved or rejected. This action is called<br>
> > >>> > translation review.<br>
> > >>> > A version merging is to copy all matching translated/approved<br>
> > >>> > translations from the source version to the target version.<br>
> > >>> > If there is an existing translated/approved translation, the newer<br>
> > >>> > translation will be used.<br>
> > >>> > After liberty translations are closed, we will merge translations<br>
> > >>> > from stable-liberty version to master version,<br>
> > >>> > and then open both stable-liberty version and master version to<br>
> > >>> > accept translations.<br>
> > >>> > I investigated whether translation review would be copied after<br>
> > >>> > version merging.<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > Here are the results:<br>
> > >>> > The review result - "approve" will be copied to the target version,<br>
> > >>> > while the review result - "reject" will not.<br>
> > >>> > Only "rejecting" existing translations will not have the same<br>
> > >>> > translations rejected in master version.<br>
> > >>> > But "approving" existing translations will have the same<br>
> > >>> > translations approved in the master version.<br>
> > >>> > That means, if there are "rejected" translations in stable-liberty,<br>
> > >>> > it's better to input the correct translations.<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > The investigation result is OK with me.<br>
> > >>> > If you have different opinions, please propose here.<br>
> > >>> > If you want to understand more about version merging, please let me<br>
> > >>> > know.<br>
> > >>> ><br>
> > >>> > Best regards<br>
> > >>> > Ying Chun Guo (Daisy)<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > >>> > Openstack-i18n mailing list<br>
> > >>> > Openstack-i18n@lists.openstack.org<br>
> > >>> > <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-i18n">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-i18n</a><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> Openstack-i18n mailing list<br>
> Openstack-i18n@lists.openstack.org<br>
> <a href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-i18n">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-i18n</a><br>
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