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    Hi Anne,<br>
    I know I don't have street cred yet, but here's my offering.<br>
    <br>
    <b>Administration Guide / Admin User Guide</b><br>
    Am thinking that the biggest problem is one of audience. The
    restructure blueprint says that the 'Administration Guide' is for
    deployers and not for the administrative user. And it says that one
    of the tasks of a deployer is to 'run' the cloud. <br>
    This feels like a mixed target, the deployer doesn't necessarily
    stick around to administer what's been deployed. (Is this definition
    a result of the Ops Guide? That too could be divied up now that the
    suite is growing.)<br>
    <br>
    With this definition of deployer, of course the Admin guide would be
    huge, including both deployment and management tasks. And is why the
    Admin Guide blueprint is so large, including information on
    installation and configuration in each project chapter.  If you
    clearly separate the audience, I believe there should be only one
    Administration guide, for the person sitting down to manage the
    beast after it's been deployed.<br>
    <br>
    IMVHO, the Admin User Guide could be the 4.0 Administration Guide
    (with its clear focus on admin tasks), with the next release
    including the broader admin tasks from Nick's specification
    (security, troubleshooting, etc).<br>
    <br>
    <b>Project Admin Guides / Single Admin Guide</b><br>
    If it is at all feasible, I'd keep the project admin guides going.
    And use xi:includes to bring their content into the Administration
    Guide where relevant. There will be inconsistency across project
    guides, but:<br>
    --They are useful for component-focused issues.<br>
    --Detailed, advanced material can be introduced which might be out
    of place in an overarching admin guide.<br>
    --Dev folk will always be more interested in producing content for
    their own project doc (and then it can be referenced elsewhere).<br>
    <br>
    cheers, Summer<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">
      <div><font color="#666666">Summer Long<br>
          OpenStack Documentation<br>
          Engineering Content Services<br>
          <br>
          Red Hat Asia Pacific<br>
          Brisbane, Australia</font><br>
        <a href="mailto:slong@redhat.com">slong@redhat.com</a></div>
    </div>
    <br>
    <span style="color:#000000;" class="headerSpan">
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/11/2013 05:21 AM, Anne Gentle
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
    </span>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAD0KtVF1z9Er2-GMvTZ-Zez0xiMPfUA-e7GxYy7JjxmQfnmYFw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <p style="font-size:14px;margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
            color="#000000">Hi all, </font></p>
        <p
          style="font-size:14px;margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><font
            color="#000000"><br>
          </font></p>
        <p style="font-size:14px;margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
            color="#000000">I'd like to get feedback about the <b>administration</b> portion
            of our documentation refactoring plan [1], which we
            overlooked when we created the original documentation
            restructuring blueprint.[4]</font></p>
        <p
          style="font-size:14px;margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><font
            color="#000000"><br>
          </font></p>
        <p style="font-size:14px;margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
            color="#000000">tl;dr - We need to make a decision about
            guides for administrators/operators going forward. Please
            review the following detailed analysis. </font></p>
        <p
          style="font-size:14px;margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><font
            color="#000000"><br>
          </font></p>
        <p style="font-size:14px;margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
            color="#000000">Tom, Diane, Nick, Nermina, I, and others
            have been reviewing the following blueprints for the Havana
            release:</font></p>
        <ul style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
          <li style="margin-left:15px"><font color="#000000">[1]
              restructure documentation blueprint. Describes a plan to
              restructure the OpenStack documentation. However it did
              not address Admin Guides.</font></li>
          <li style="margin-left:15px"><font color="#000000">[2]
              modularize admin guide. Recommends a comprehensive
              administrative guide, with the option of producing smaller
              project-specific guides. </font></li>
          <li style="margin-left:15px">
            <font color="#000000">[3] os-admin-docs. Outlines a
              comprehensive administration guide that describes
              everything that an administrator/operator needs to
              install, deploy, and maintain an OpenStack cluster.</font></li>
        </ul>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAD0KtVF1z9Er2-GMvTZ-Zez0xiMPfUA-e7GxYy7JjxmQfnmYFw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
            color="#000000">I have a few concerns about these
            blueprints, which is why I'd like <b>more eyes please</b>!
            To see if we're talking crazy talk. :)</font></p>
        <p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
            color="#000000"><br>
          </font></p>
        <p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
            color="#000000">My concerns:</font></p>
        <ul style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
          <li style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
              color="#000000">We already have smaller admin guides,
              which are maintained by project teams. The block storage
              and networking teams are quite active in maintaining their
              admin guides. However, the object storage and compute
              teams are not as invested in their admin guides. So there
              are issues with having smaller, project-directed guides –
              lack of consistency, content mismatch, and other issues.</font></li>
          <li style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
              color="#000000">The comprehensive administrative guide
              seems to have the same goals as the existing Operations
              Guide. In that book sprint, the stated goal was to create
              a book for new OpenStack cloud operators. </font></li>
          <li style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
              color="#000000">We already hear that the Compute Admin
              Guide is too long. How can a longer guide really be the
              answer? Lorin pulled out the Image Management chapter to
              make the <span style="font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri">OpenStack
                Virtual Machine Image Guide, and the config chapter is
                moving to the new Configuration Reference</span>. We've
              been gutting the Compute Admin Guide since the Summit to
              try to slim it into just a Config Ref and an Admin User
              Guide. So we're hoping that the gutting will result in a
              set of books, which then coupled with the Operations
              Guide, is the fresh-minted OpenStack administrator's
              ticket to success. </font></li>
          <li style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
              color="#000000">The plan for a comprehensive
              administration guide might not fit with our plans for
              content modularity and doc ownership. </font></li>
        </ul>
        <p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial">
          <font color="#000000">The end goal of the admin doc
            restructuring is to make the Operations Guide, the Admin
            Guides, and the Config Reference all work well together. We
            want to avoid redundancy and we want to provide a clear path
            through the documentation. And we must scope this work
            correctly for the upcoming October release date.</font></p>
        <p
          style="font-size:14px;margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><font
            color="#000000"><br>
          </font></p>
        <p style="font-size:14px;margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><b><font
              color="#000000">Questions:</font></b></p>
        <p
          style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;min-height:15px">
          <font color="#000000"><br>
          </font></p>
        <p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
            color="#000000">Do we need a large, comprehensive Admin
            guide (now that I see the outline I'm a little daunted)?</font></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Nick: Yes. I know that was the goal of the Ops Guide, but I think it
    landed in a different, and just as vital, spot. I think a
    comprehensive guide makes it possible for someone to avoid getting
    lost in a sea of books, as the guide will, well, guide them through.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAD0KtVF1z9Er2-GMvTZ-Zez0xiMPfUA-e7GxYy7JjxmQfnmYFw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
        <p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
            color="#000000">Should we create an Admin User Guide with
            Diane's outline [5]? <br>
          </font></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Nick: Absolutely. What she has planned is a vital look at the
    essentials.
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAD0KtVF1z9Er2-GMvTZ-Zez0xiMPfUA-e7GxYy7JjxmQfnmYFw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
            color="#000000"><br>
          </font></p>
        <p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
            color="#000000">Does an Admin User Guide eliminate the need
            for a separate OpenStack Administration Guide?</font></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Nick: No. I see it as a progression. start with Diane's book, then
    pickup the guide for more in depth understanding of concepts.
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAD0KtVF1z9Er2-GMvTZ-Zez0xiMPfUA-e7GxYy7JjxmQfnmYFw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <p
          style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;min-height:15px"><font
            color="#000000"><br>
          </font></p>
        <p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
            color="#000000">Should we keep the separate Admin Guides per
            project? (That brings along the problem with owners and
            inconsistency.)</font></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Nick:Yes.the reality is that those owners are sometimes the best at
    this, sometimes not. A guide like this lets us improve where
    necessary without ditching the good stuff.    Remember we are not
    talking about getting rid of the great work you have done (and are
    doing) . Just the opposite.
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAD0KtVF1z9Er2-GMvTZ-Zez0xiMPfUA-e7GxYy7JjxmQfnmYFw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <p
          style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;min-height:15px"><font
            color="#000000"><br>
          </font></p>
        <p style="margin:0px;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial"><font
            color="#000000">Or maybe there is another option or two or
            eight that we haven't thought of?</font></p>
        <div class="im"
          style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><font
              color="#000000"><br>
            </font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">Thanks for reading this far! We need more
              opinions and then a decision for the path forward.</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">Thanks,</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">Anne</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><font
              color="#000000"><br>
            </font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><font
              color="#000000"><br>
            </font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">1 <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/restructure-documentation"
                target="_blank">https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/restructure-documentation</a></font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">2 <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/modularize-admin-guide"
                target="_blank">https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/modularize-admin-guide</a></font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">3 <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/os-admin-docs"
                target="_blank">https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/os-admin-docs</a></font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">4 <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Blueprint-restructure-documentation&diff=25490&oldid=24528"
                target="_blank">https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Blueprint-restructure-documentation&diff=25490&oldid=24528</a></font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">5 <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprint-restructure-documentation#OpenStack_Admin_User_Guide"
                target="_blank">https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprint-restructure-documentation#OpenStack_Admin_User_Guide</a></font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><font
              color="#000000"><br>
            </font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">More reference information. </font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px">
            <font color="#000000"><br>
            </font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">These are the current titles for the admin
              audience:</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">OpenStack Block Storage Service
              Administration Guide</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">OpenStack Compute Administration Guide</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">OpenStack Network Service Administration
              Guide</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">OpenStack Object Storage Administration
              Guide</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">OpenStack Operations Guide</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">OpenStack High Availability Guide</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">OpenStack Virtual Machine Image Guide</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri">
            <font color="#000000">OpenStack Security Guide</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><font
              color="#000000"><br>
            </font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">These are the additional titles for Havana
              under consideration:</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">Admin User Guide (sourced from End User
              Guide)</font></p>
          <p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri"><font
              color="#000000">OpenStack Administration Guide (sourced by
              combining from modular content)</font></p>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Openstack-docs mailing list
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
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