<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>following the stestr's example I proposed a change in Tempest:<br></div><div><a href="https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/tempest/+/768583">https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/tempest/+/768583</a></div><div>Feel free to review and comment.<br></div><div><br></div><div>See also other proposed changes by following the 'inclusive_jargon' topic:<br></div><div><a href="https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:inclusive_jargon+(status:open">https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:inclusive_jargon+(status:open</a> OR status:merged)</div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards,<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 at 20:56, Ghanshyam Mann <<a href="mailto:gmann@ghanshyammann.com">gmann@ghanshyammann.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> ---- On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 12:58:47 -0600 Matthew Treinish <<a href="mailto:mtreinish@kortar.org" target="_blank">mtreinish@kortar.org</a>> wrote ----<br>
> On Thu, Jul 09, 2020 at 12:06:39PM -0500, Ghanshyam Mann wrote:<br>
> > ---- On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 11:45:19 -0500 Arx Cruz <<a href="mailto:arxcruz@redhat.com" target="_blank">arxcruz@redhat.com</a>> wrote ----<br>
> > > Yes, that's the idea.<br>
> > > We can keep the old interface for a few cycles, with warning deprecation message advertising to use the new one, and then remove in the future.<br>
> > <br>
> > Deprecating things leads to two situations which really need some good reason before doing it:<br>
> > <br>
> > - If we keep the deprecated interfaces working along with new interfaces then it is confusion for users<br>
> > as well as maintenance effort. In my experience, very less migration happen to new things if old keep working.<br>
> <br>
> Just a heads up the recent stestr 3.1.0 release<br>
> (<a href="https://github.com/mtreinish/stestr/releases/tag/3.1.0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/mtreinish/stestr/releases/tag/3.1.0</a>) did this first step<br>
> and deprecated things with:<br>
> <br>
> <a href="https://github.com/mtreinish/stestr/pull/297" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/mtreinish/stestr/pull/297</a><br>
> <br>
> There were multiple recent user requests to start this process sooner rather<br>
> than later. So regardless of what timetable and decision we make for tempest's<br>
> interfaces we should probably update tempest's internal stestr api usage to<br>
> reflect the new interface sooner rather than later (it will require bumping the<br>
> min stestr version to 3.1.0 when that change is made).<br>
> <br>
> > - If we remove them in future then it is breaking change.<br>
> <br>
> For stestr my plan is to make this breaking change eventually as part of 4.0.0 <br>
> release. The exact timetable for that I'm not clear on yet since we try to avoid<br>
> making breaking changes. The previous 2 backwards incompatible changes were<br>
> removing python 2 support (which was 3.0.0) and switching to cliff for the cli,<br>
> which wasn't strictly backwards incompatible we just made it 2.0.0 as a<br>
> precaution because there were potential edge cases with cliff we were worried<br>
> about. So there really isn't a established pattern for this kind of deprecation<br>
> removal. I don't expect it to be a quick process though.<br>
<br>
Thanks matt for the updates and providing new interfaces in stestr, It will surely help Tempest to<br>
move towards those new deprecate these interface/wording. As discussed in PTG/Forum for<br>
overall direction in OpenStack, I am ok to do similar changes in Tempest.<br>
<br>
For branchless Tempest, as you mentioned we need to bump the min stestr version to 3.1.0<br>
for all supported stable branches which are stein onwards for now. Hope that is fine from a requirement<br>
perspective. <br>
<br>
We can move Tempest to new stestr 3.1.0 soon and project side usage of stestr in unit/functional<br>
tests runner is also not much. Seems only two repo:<br>
- <a href="https://codesearch.opendev.org/?q=stestr%20run%20--black&i=nope&files=tox.ini&excludeFiles=&repos=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://codesearch.opendev.org/?q=stestr%20run%20--black&i=nope&files=tox.ini&excludeFiles=&repos=</a><br>
<br>
-gmann<br>
<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -Matt Treinish<br>
> <br>
> > IMO, we need to first ask/analyse whether name changes are worth to do with above things as results. Or in other<br>
> > team we should first define what is 'outdated naming conventions' and how worth to fix those.<br>
> > <br>
> > -gmann<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > > Kind regards,<br>
> > > <br>
> > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 6:15 PM Luigi Toscano <<a href="mailto:ltoscano@redhat.com" target="_blank">ltoscano@redhat.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > -- <br>
> > > Arx Cruz <br>
> > > Software Engineer <br>
> > > Red Hat EMEA <br>
> > > <a href="mailto:arxcruz@redhat.com" target="_blank">arxcruz@redhat.com</a> <br>
> > > @RedHat Red Hat Red Hat <br>
> > > On Thursday, 9 July 2020 17:57:14 CEST Ghanshyam Mann wrote:<br>
> > > > ---- On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 10:14:58 -0500 Arx Cruz <<a href="mailto:arxcruz@redhat.com" target="_blank">arxcruz@redhat.com</a>> wrote<br>
> > > > ----<br>
> > > > > Hello,<br>
> > > > > I would like to start a discussion regarding the topic.<br>
> > > > > At this moment in time we have an opportunity to be a more open and<br>
> > > > > inclusive project by eliminating outdated naming conventions from<br>
> > > > > tempest codebase, such as blacklist, whitelist.We should take the<br>
> > > > > opportunity and do our best to replace outdated terms with their more<br>
> > > > > inclusive alternatives.As you can see in [1] the TripleO project is<br>
> > > > > already working on this initiative, and I would like to work on this as<br>
> > > > > well on the tempest side.<br>
> > > > Thanks Arx for raising it.<br>
> > > > <br>
> > > > I always have hard time to understand the definition of 'outdated naming<br>
> > > > conventions ' are they outdated from coding language perspective or<br>
> > > > outdated as English language perspective? I do not see naming used in<br>
> > > > coding language should be matched with English as grammar/outdated/new<br>
> > > > style language. As long as they are not so bad (hurt anyone culture,<br>
> > > > abusing word etc) it is fine to keep them as it is and start adopting new<br>
> > > > names for new things we code.<br>
> > > > <br>
> > > > For me, naming convention are the things which always can be improved over<br>
> > > > time, none of the name is best suited for everyone in open source. But we<br>
> > > > need to understand whether it is worth to do in term of 1. effort of<br>
> > > > changing those 2. un- comfortness of adopting new names 3. again changing<br>
> > > > in future.<br>
> > > > <br>
> > > > At least from Tempest perspective, blacklist is very known common word used<br>
> > > > for lot of interfaces and dependent testing tool. I cannot debate on how<br>
> > > > good it is or bad but i can debate on not-worth to change now. For new<br>
> > > > interface, we can always use best-suggested name as per that<br>
> > > > time/culture/maintainers. We have tried few of such improvement in past but<br>
> > > > end up not-successful. Example: -<br>
> > > > <a href="https://opendev.org/openstack/tempest/src/commit/e1eebfa8451d4c28bef0669e4a" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://opendev.org/openstack/tempest/src/commit/e1eebfa8451d4c28bef0669e4a</a><br>
> > > > 7f493b6086cab9/tempest/test.py#L43<br>
> > > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > That's not the only used terminology for list of things, though. We could <br>
> > > always add new interfaces and keep the old ones are deprecated (but not <br>
> > > advertised) for the foreseable future. The old code won't be broken and the <br>
> > > new one would use the new terminology, I'd say it's a good solution.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > -- <br>
> > > Luigi<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > <br>
> <br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>
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