<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:53 PM Doug Hellmann <<a href="mailto:doug@doughellmann.com">doug@doughellmann.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Apr 13, 2020, at 4:50 PM, Julia Kreger <<a href="mailto:juliaashleykreger@gmail.com" target="_blank">juliaashleykreger@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><span style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:27 AM Doug Hellmann <</span><a href="mailto:doug@doughellmann.com" style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">doug@doughellmann.com</a><span style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">> wrote:</span><br style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br><br><br><blockquote type="cite">On Apr 9, 2020, at 1:24 PM, Jeremy Stanley <<a href="mailto:fungi@yuggoth.org" target="_blank">fungi@yuggoth.org</a>> wrote:<br><br>On 2020-04-08 10:04:25 +0200 (+0200), Dmitry Tantsur wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 4:37 PM Jeremy Stanley <<a href="mailto:fungi@yuggoth.org" target="_blank">fungi@yuggoth.org</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote>[...]<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Why *can't* OpenShift include OpenStack projects? I haven't seen<br>this adequately explained.<br></blockquote><br>It's less of a technical issue, but more of misunderstanding that<br>including an OpenStack project does not involve literally<br>installing OpenStack. And no matter what we think, for a lot of<br>people OpenStack==Nova (another marketing issue to address?).<br></blockquote>[...]<br><br>I don't understand why that would make a difference in this case,<br>unless you're saying that the people who make architectural<br>decisions about what's included in OpenShift have no actual<br>familiarity with Ironic and OpenStack. If you know anyone who works<br>at that company, can you help them understand the difference?<br></blockquote><br>This part of the argument has completely lost me. OpenShift 4 already includes Ironic. I’m not aware of any challenges that arose while making that happen that would have been solved or even made easier by Ironic being its own OIP.<br><br></blockquote><br style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">I'm sure one time challenges would have been greater initially, but</span><br style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">ongoing headaches would be less IMHO. All headaches there are a result</span><br style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">of how people want to do their jobs and achieve/interpret goals with</span><br style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">perceptions while trying to match that up to policy and procedural</span><br style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">frameworks. In essence, without further delineation, it is an uphill</span><br style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">battle that focuses on finding the string "OpenStack" and directing it</span><br style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">to that process.</span><br style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That may be true, but those problems are internal to Red Hat, aren’t they?</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This particular one - yes. Sigh, I regret bringing up metal3, but I wanted an example that I'm well familiar with... It's not only about OpenShift. Please.</div><div><br></div><div>Dmitry<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><br style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:BitstreamVeraSansMono-Roman;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><blockquote type="cite"><br><blockquote type="cite">On one hand, large distributions want us to have stable branches<br>every year or two. Even what we have is too much.<br><br>On the other - we have small consumers who could benefit from just<br>pulling the latest(ish) release and knowing that if a serous bug<br>is found there, they won't have to update to the next feature (and<br>potentially major) release.<br></blockquote>[...]<br><br>This sounds like a problem shared by, well, basically every other<br>project in OpenStack too. Perhaps it's an opportunity to collaborate<br>on finding solutions.<br>--<br>Jeremy Stanley</blockquote></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div></div>