<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>Unfortunately, I have a conflict at that time and will not be
able to attend.<br>
</p><p>I do have a little bit of context on the Events deprecation to
share.</p><p>First, you will note the commit message from the commit [0] when
Events were deprecated:</p><p>"</p><p class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731commit-title"> Deprecate event subsystem </p><pre>This subsystem has never been finished and is not maintained.
Deprecate it for future removal.</pre><p>"</p><p>I got the impression from jd at the time that there were a number
of features in Telemetry,</p><p>including Panko, that were not really "finished" and that the
engineers who had worked on them</p><p>had moved on to other things, so the features had become
unsupported. In late 2018 there was</p><p>an effort to clean up things that were not well maintained or
didn't fit the direction of Telemetry.</p><p>See also:
<a class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://julien.danjou.info/lessons-from-openstack-telemetry-deflation/" target="_blank">https://julien.danjou.info/lessons-from-openstack-telemetry-deflation/</a></p></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the reply Joseph, <br><br>I have seen the commit message, and I also read the blog you referenced (and other pages related to the same topic) which made us a bit worried. I will try to explain our perspective and impressions when we read those blog pages. It is also worth noting that we have just started engaging with the OpenStack community (so, pardon my ignorance with some parts of OpenStack, and how this OpenSource community works). We are already making some contributions to Kolla-ansible, and we want to start to contribute back to Telemetry as well.<br><br>Before getting to the topic of Telemetry, and to be more precise, Ceilometer, let me state that I have taken part in other OpenSource projects and communities before, but these communities are managed by a different organization.<br><br>So, Ceilometer; when we were designing and building our OpenStack Cloud, where billing is a crucial part of it. Ceilometer was chosen because it fits our requirements, working "out of the box" to provide valuable data for billing in a high availability fashion. It for sure lacks some features, but that is ok when one works with OpenSource. The pollers and event managers we are missing, we would like to create and contribute back to the community.<br><br>Having said that, what puzzled me, and worried us, is the fact that features that work are being removed from a project just because some contributors/committers left the community. There wasn't (at least I did not see) a good technical reason to remove this feature (e.g. it does not deliver what is promised, or an alternative solution has been created somewhere and effort is being concentrated there, nobody uses it, and so on). If the features were broken, and there were no people to fix it, I would understand, but that is not the case. The feature works, and it delivers what is promised. Moreover, reading the blog you referenced does not provide a good feeling about how the community has managed the event (the project losing part of its contributors) in question. OpenSource has cycles, and it is understandable that sometimes we do not have many people working on something. OpenSource projects have cycles, and that is normal. As you can see, now there would be us starting/trying to engage with the Telemetry project/community. What is hard for us to understand is that the contributors while leaving are also "killing" the project by removing part of its features (that are very interesting and valuable for us).<br><br>Why is that important for us?<br>When we work with OpenSource we now that we might need to put effort to customize/adapt things to our business workflow, and we expect that the community will be there to receive and discuss these changes. Therefore, we have predictability that the software/system we base our business will be there, and we can contribute back to improve it. An open source community could and should live even if the project has no community for a while, then if people regroup and start to work on it again, the community is able to flourish. <br></div>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>Events is one feature that often gets requested, but the use
cases and demand for it are not expressed</p><p>strongly or well understood by most people. If the Telemetry
project has demand to de-deprecate</p><p>Event handling (including Panko), I'd suggest a review of the
requirements for event handling and</p><p>possibly choosing a champion for maintaining the Panko service.<br>
</p><p><br>
</p><p>Also note: over in Monasca we have a spec [1] for handling Events
ingestion which I hope we will be <br>
</p><p>completing in Train. Contributions and comments welcome. :)</p><p><br>
</p><p>joseph<br>
</p><p>[0]
<a class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/openstack/ceilometer/commit/8a0245a5b3e1357d35ad6653be37ca01176577e4" target="_blank">https://github.com/openstack/ceilometer/commit/8a0245a5b3e1357d35ad6653be37ca01176577e4</a><br>
</p><p>[1]
<a class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/openstack/monasca-specs/blob/master/specs/stein/approved/monasca-events-listener.rst" target="_blank">https://github.com/openstack/monasca-specs/blob/master/specs/stein/approved/monasca-events-listener.rst</a></p></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It is awesome that you might have a similar spec (not developed yet) for Monasca, but the question would remain for us. One, two, or three years from now, what will happen if you, your team, or the people behind this spec/feature decide to leave the community? Will this feature be removed from Monasca too? <br></div>
</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 6:23 PM Joseph Davis <<a href="mailto:joseph.davis@suse.com">joseph.davis@suse.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-cite-prefix">On 5/8/19 7:12 AM,
<a class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openstack-discuss-request@lists.openstack.org" target="_blank">openstack-discuss-request@lists.openstack.org</a> wrote:
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-quote-pre">Hello Trinh,
Where does the meeting happen? Will it be via IRC Telemetry channel? Or, in
the Etherpad (<a class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/telemetry-meeting-agenda" target="_blank">https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/telemetry-meeting-agenda</a>)? I
would like to discuss and understand a bit better the context behind
the Telemetry
events deprecation.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Unfortunately, I have a conflict at that time and will not be
able to attend.<br>
</p>
<p>I do have a little bit of context on the Events deprecation to
share.</p>
<p>First, you will note the commit message from the commit [0] when
Events were deprecated:</p>
<p>"</p>
<p class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731commit-title"> Deprecate event subsystem </p>
<pre>This subsystem has never been finished and is not maintained.
Deprecate it for future removal.</pre>
<p>"</p>
<p>I got the impression from jd at the time that there were a number
of features in Telemetry,</p>
<p>including Panko, that were not really "finished" and that the
engineers who had worked on them</p>
<p>had moved on to other things, so the features had become
unsupported. In late 2018 there was</p>
<p>an effort to clean up things that were not well maintained or
didn't fit the direction of Telemetry.</p>
<p>See also:
<a class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://julien.danjou.info/lessons-from-openstack-telemetry-deflation/" target="_blank">https://julien.danjou.info/lessons-from-openstack-telemetry-deflation/</a></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Events is one feature that often gets requested, but the use
cases and demand for it are not expressed</p>
<p>strongly or well understood by most people. If the Telemetry
project has demand to de-deprecate</p>
<p>Event handling (including Panko), I'd suggest a review of the
requirements for event handling and</p>
<p>possibly choosing a champion for maintaining the Panko service.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Also note: over in Monasca we have a spec [1] for handling Events
ingestion which I hope we will be <br>
</p>
<p>completing in Train. Contributions and comments welcome. :)</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>joseph<br>
</p>
<p>[0]
<a class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/openstack/ceilometer/commit/8a0245a5b3e1357d35ad6653be37ca01176577e4" target="_blank">https://github.com/openstack/ceilometer/commit/8a0245a5b3e1357d35ad6653be37ca01176577e4</a><br>
</p>
<p>[1]
<a class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/openstack/monasca-specs/blob/master/specs/stein/approved/monasca-events-listener.rst" target="_blank">https://github.com/openstack/monasca-specs/blob/master/specs/stein/approved/monasca-events-listener.rst</a><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-quote-pre">On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 12:19 AM Trinh Nguyen <a class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dangtrinhnt@gmail.com" target="_blank"><dangtrinhnt@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<pre class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-quote-pre">Hi team,
As planned, we will have a team meeting at 02:00 UTC, May 9th on
#openstack-telemetry to discuss what we gonna do for the next milestone
(Train-1) and continue what we left off from the last meeting.
I put here [1] the agenda thinking that it should be fine for an hour
meeting. If you have anything to talk about, please put it there too.
[1] <a class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/telemetry-meeting-agenda" target="_blank">https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/telemetry-meeting-agenda</a>
Bests,
--
<b class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-star"><span class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-tag">*</span>Trinh Nguyen<span class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-tag">*</span></b>
*<a href="http://www.edlab.xyz" target="_blank">www.edlab.xyz</a> <a class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.edlab.xyz" target="_blank"><https://www.edlab.xyz></a>*
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="gmail-m_-7370205005626389731moz-quote-pre"></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Rafael Weingärtner</div></div>