Open Stack

Hello,

IMHO, some issues with using a mailing list are:

- it's harder to browse and search the archive and you don't have threads
organized by (sub)categories
- requires some extra steps jump in and to reply to a specific thread if
you're not already subscribed to the ML
- mail filter per subject [prefix] does not fully work as not all messages
use a prefix
- other idiosyncrasies like reading a ML email message and if you want to
share it, you need to go to the archive URL, find the message and copy the
link

A ML makes sense for me for occasional, focused announcements. Its usage as
community support feels like belonging to another age.
I am very grateful for OpenStack and all the community effort, I'm
just bluntly expressing how the ML, as a tool, feels.

The risk of yet another abandoned initiative is real, indeed.

One (drastic) way to do it is to move the ML to a modern forum. This
way, the focus of the entire community is on one tool. And users can
subscribe to categories of interest.
You get all those little things from a forum: automatic search for similar
messages when posting, email alerts toggle per thread, pretty code
formatting etc.

A modern, open source, forum, like Discourse [1], can be used as a ML as
well [2], and you can even subscribe to categories (instead of relying on
ML subject prefix).
So, Discourse is probably able to accommodate those die hard mailing list
lovers as well. :)
I think migration can be done without disturbing or requiring any action
from the ML subscribers.

I am willing to help with hosting, scripting subscribers migration, and
maintenance.
Clearly, the bigger issue is actually having knowledgeable OpenStackers
allocate time to answer technical questions.
Another (modern) communication tool for the entire community is not a fix,
but I think it increases the chances a bit for those valuable contributions.

[1] https://www.discourse.org/
[2] https://discourse.canceridc.dev/t/using-discourse-as-a-mailing-list/36

Regards,
Adrian Andreias




On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 5:10 PM Albert Braden <ozzzo at yahoo.com> wrote:

> This has been my experience also. Some companies value my participation in
> the community, but many disallow it. My present job doesn't even allow me
> to email the list from my work email. Our business depends on Openstack,
> but we contribute nothing to the community. When we fix bugs that are
> affecting us, those fixes are not shared with the community. We pay Redhat
> for licensing and (useless) support of RHEL and RHOSP, but when I need
> support I go begging to the community. I consistently advocate for us to
> stop spending money on licensing and support of an inferior product, and to
> deploy our resources more productively by participating in the community,
> but I'm just a sysadmin so nobody pays any attention.
> On Wednesday, February 1, 2023, 11:29:56 AM EST, Jay Faulkner <
> jay at gr-oss.io> wrote:
>
>
>
> The problem underlying commons neglect is not that there are too few
> people involved in the project, it's that there's too small a
> proportion of those people who have the interest or time to help
> maintain the commons. If anything, it gets worse the larger the
> community becomes. Lots of people go to the beach, but not many
> people take a trash bag with them and pick up garbage when they see
> it. The more popular the beach, the harder it becomes to keep it
> clean.
>
>
>
> I've been working on OpenStack, off and on, for almost 9 years. (I'm US
> based; fwiw). What I've found in my career is that it's incredibly hard to
> get an OpenStack jobs with enough freedom to help with the commons. Many
> jobs before my current one wanted a solid line to be drawn between the
> exact patches you were working on and how it benefited the company you
> worked for. This made it difficult to work on anything but high-impact bugs
> and features, aside from the time I used, sometimes under the radar, to
> review code and keep things flowing.
>
> With the commons; it's incredibly difficult to draw those lines. That
> means that these contributors, working for a company that only has interest
> in supporting OpenStack in ways that have a direct, measurable impact on
> their product, are consuming from the commons but are not contributing back.
>
> I don't know what the solution is; but the above represents the reality
> for a large number of OpenStack contributors. If you're one of them, please
> know I appreciate your contributions, and contributing where you can. If
> you're not; maybe spend a few more minutes thinking about and contributing
> to the commons since not everyone can.
>
> -
> Jay Faulkner
> TC Member
> Ironic PTL
>
>
>
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