<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Oh I was literally just thinking about the 'credential' type key
      value items we store in the Keystone DB. Rather than storing them
      in the Keystone db and worrying about encryption (and encryption
      keys) in Keystone around what is otherwise a plaintext secret,
      just offload that to a service specific for handling those (which
      Keystone isn't).<br>
      <br>
      My only really worry then is if tying MFA credential values to an
      external service is a great idea as now Keystone and Barbican have
      to be alive for auth to occur (plus auth could be marginally
      slower). Although by using an external service security could
      potentially be enhanced and deployers don't need to worry about
      credential encryption key rotation (and re-encryption of
      credentials) in Keystone.<br>
    </p>
    <p>As for fernet keys in Barbican... that that does sound like a
      fairly terrifying chicken and egg problem. Although Castellan with
      a Vault plugin sounds doable (not tied back to Keystone's own
      auth), and could actually be useful for multi-host keystone
      deployments since Vault now handles your Key
      replication/distribution provided Keystone rotates keys into it.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31/08/18 1:50 AM, Lance Bragstad
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE6oFcFGv+sxxYPN6i59f5F7H5E6SbSO_ags8-OEK=M92H7_1w@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">This topic has surfaced intermittently ever since
        keystone implemented fernet tokens in Kilo. An initial idea was
        written down shortly afterwords [0], then we targeted it to
        Ocata [1], and removed from the backlog around the Pike
        timeframe [2]. The commit message of [2] includes meeting links.
        The discussion usually tripped attempting to abstract enough of
        the details about rotation and setup of keys to work in all
        cases.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>[0] <a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/311268/"
            moz-do-not-send="true">https://review.openstack.org/#/c/311268/</a></div>
        <div>[1] <a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/363065/"
            moz-do-not-send="true">https://review.openstack.org/#/c/363065/</a></div>
        <div>[2] <a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439194/"
            moz-do-not-send="true">https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439194/</a><br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr">On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 5:02 AM Juan Antonio
              Osorio Robles <<a href="mailto:jaosorior@redhat.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true">jaosorior@redhat.com</a>>
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                <p>FWIW, instead of barbican, castellan could be used as
                  a key manager.<br>
                </p>
                <br>
                <div class="gmail-m_244733796970506849moz-cite-prefix">On
                  08/30/2018 12:23 PM, Adrian Turjak wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div class="gmail-m_244733796970506849moz-text-html"
                    lang="x-unicode">
                    <p><br>
                    </p>
                    <div
                      class="gmail-m_244733796970506849moz-cite-prefix">On
                      30/08/18 6:29 AM, Lance Bragstad wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div class="gmail_quote">
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                            <div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US">
                              <div
                                class="gmail-m_244733796970506849m_329163095983434052WordSection1">
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:11pt">Is that what
                                    is being described here ?  <a
href="https://docs.openstack.org/keystone/pike/admin/identity-credential-encryption.html"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">
https://docs.openstack.org/keystone/pike/admin/identity-credential-encryption.html</a></span></p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>This is a separate mechanism for storing
                            secrets, not necessarily passwords (although
                            I agree the term credentials automatically
                            makes people assume passwords). This is used
                            if consuming keystone's native MFA
                            implementation. For example, storing a
                            shared secret between the user and keystone
                            that is provided as a additional
                            authentication method along with a username
                            and password combination.</div>
                          <div> </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <p>Is there any interest or plans to potentially
                      allow Keystone's credential store to use Barbican
                      as a storage provider? Encryption already is
                      better than nothing, but if you already have (or
                      will be deploying) a proper secret store with a
                      hardware backend (or at least hardware stored
                      encryption keys) then it might make sense to throw
                      that in Barbican.<br>
                      <br>
                      Or is this also too much of a chicken/egg problem?
                      How safe is it to rely on Barbican availability
                      for MFA secrets and auth?<br>
                    </p>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <fieldset
                    class="gmail-m_244733796970506849mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                  <br>
                  <pre>__________________________________________________________________________
OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Unsubscribe: <a class="gmail-m_244733796970506849moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe</a>
<a class="gmail-m_244733796970506849moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a>
</pre>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
              </div>
__________________________________________________________________________<br>
              OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage
              questions)<br>
              Unsubscribe: <a
href="http://OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe"
                rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe</a><br>
              <a
                href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev"
                rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a><br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">__________________________________________________________________________
OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Unsubscribe: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe">OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev">http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>