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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;">I use RDO in production. Its pretty far from RedHat OpenStack. though its been a while since I tried the TripleO part of RDO. Is it pretty well integrated now? Similar to RedHat
OpenStack? or is it more Fedora like then CentOS like?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Kevin<br>
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<div id="divRpF609215" style="direction: ltr;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Dmitry Tantsur [dtantsur@redhat.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 05, 2018 11:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] [all] TC Report 18-26<br>
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<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 19:31 Fox, Kevin M <<a href="mailto:Kevin.Fox@pnnl.gov" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Kevin.Fox@pnnl.gov</a>> wrote:<br>
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We're pretty far into a tangent...<br>
<br>
/me shrugs. I've done it. It can work.<br>
<br>
Some things your right. deploying k8s is more work then deploying ansible. But what I said depends on context. If your goal is to deploy k8s/manage k8s then having to learn how to use k8s is not a big ask. adding a different tool such as ansible is an extra
cognitive dependency. Deploying k8s doesn't need a general solution to deploying generic base OS's. Just enough OS to deploy K8s and then deploy everything on top in containers. Deploying a seed k8s with minikube is pretty trivial. I'm not suggesting a solution
here to provide generic provisioning to every use case in the datacenter. But enough to get a k8s based cluster up and self hosted enough where you could launch other provisioning/management tools in that same cluster, if you need that. It provides a solid
base for the datacenter on which you can easily add the services you need for dealing with everything.<br>
<br>
All of the microservices I mentioned can be wrapped up in a single helm chart and deployed with a single helm install command.<br>
<br>
I don't have permission to release anything at the moment, so I can't prove anything right now. So, take my advice with a grain of salt. :)<br>
<br>
Switching gears, you said why would users use lfs when they can use a distro, so why use openstack without a distro. I'd say, today unless you are paying a lot, there isn't really an equivalent distro that isn't almost as much effort as lfs when you consider
day2 ops. To compare with Redhat again, we have a RHEL (redhat openstack), and Rawhide (devstack) but no equivalent of CentOS. Though I think TripleO has been making progress on this front...<br>
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<div dir="auto">It's RDO what you're looking for (equivalent of centos). TripleO is an installer project, not a distribution.</div>
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<br>
Anyway. This thread is I think 2 tangents away from the original topic now. If folks are interested in continuing this discussion, lets open a new thread.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Kevin<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Dmitry Tantsur [<a href="mailto:dtantsur@redhat.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">dtantsur@redhat.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:24 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] [all] TC Report 18-26<br>
<br>
Tried hard to avoid this thread, but this message is so much wrong..<br>
<br>
On 07/03/2018 09:48 PM, Fox, Kevin M wrote:<br>
> I don't dispute trivial, but a self hosting k8s on bare metal is not incredibly hard. In fact, it is easier then you might think. k8s is a platform for deploying/managing services. Guess what you need to provision bare metal? Just a few microservices. A dhcp
service. dhcpd in a daemonset works well. some pxe infrastructure. pixiecore with a simple http backend works pretty well in practice. a service to provide installation instructions. nginx server handing out kickstart files for example. and a place to fetch
rpms from in case you don't have internet access or want to ensure uniformity. nginx server with a mirror yum repo. Its even possible to seed it on minikube and sluff it off to its own cluster.<br>
><br>
> The main hard part about it is currently no one is shipping a reference implementation of the above. That may change...<br>
><br>
> It is certainly much much easier then deploying enough OpenStack to get a self hosting ironic working.<br>
<br>
Side note: no, it's not. What you describe is similarly hard to installing<br>
standalone ironic from scratch and much harder than using bifrost for<br>
everything. Especially when you try to do it in production. Especially with<br>
unusual operating requirements ("no TFTP servers on my network").<br>
<br>
Also, sorry, I cannot resist:<br>
"Guess what you need to orchestrate containers? Just a few things. A container<br>
runtime. Docker works well. some remove execution tooling. ansible works pretty<br>
well in practice. It is certainly much much easier then deploying enough k8s to<br>
get a self hosting containers orchestration working."<br>
<br>
Such oversimplications won't bring us anywhere. Sometimes things are hard<br>
because they ARE hard. Where are people complaining that installing a full<br>
GNU/Linux distributions from upstream tarballs is hard? How many operators here<br>
use LFS as their distro? If we are okay with using a distro for GNU/Linux, why<br>
using a distro for OpenStack causes so much contention?<br>
<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
> Kevin<br>
><br>
> ________________________________________<br>
> From: Jay Pipes [<a href="mailto:jaypipes@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jaypipes@gmail.com</a>]<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2018 10:06 AM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] [all] TC Report 18-26<br>
><br>
> On 07/02/2018 03:31 PM, Zane Bitter wrote:<br>
>> On 28/06/18 15:09, Fox, Kevin M wrote:<br>
>>> * made the barrier to testing/development as low as 'curl<br>
>>> http://......minikube; minikube start' (this spurs adoption and<br>
>>> contribution)<br>
>><br>
>> That's not so different from devstack though.<br>
>><br>
>>> * not having large silo's in deployment projects allowed better<br>
>>> communication on common tooling.<br>
>>> * Operator focused architecture, not project based architecture.<br>
>>> This simplifies the deployment situation greatly.<br>
>>> * try whenever possible to focus on just the commons and push vendor<br>
>>> specific needs to plugins so vendors can deal with vendor issues<br>
>>> directly and not corrupt the core.<br>
>><br>
>> I agree with all of those, but to be fair to OpenStack, you're leaving<br>
>> out arguably the most important one:<br>
>><br>
>> * Installation instructions start with "assume a working datacenter"<br>
>><br>
>> They have that luxury; we do not. (To be clear, they are 100% right to<br>
>> take full advantage of that luxury. Although if there are still folks<br>
>> who go around saying that it's a trivial problem and OpenStackers must<br>
>> all be idiots for making it look so difficult, they should really stop<br>
>> embarrassing themselves.)<br>
><br>
> This.<br>
><br>
> There is nothing trivial about the creation of a working datacenter --<br>
> never mind a *well-running* datacenter. Comparing Kubernetes to<br>
> OpenStack -- particular OpenStack's lower levels -- is missing this<br>
> fundamental point and ends up comparing apples to oranges.<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
> -jay<br>
><br>
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