<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-CA" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Hi Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Please find my replies inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Hongbin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Waines, Greg [mailto:Greg.Waines@windriver.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> July-06-17 11:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [openstack-dev] [zun] Some general ZUN use case / drivers type questions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Apologize I have some ‘newbie’ questions on zun.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">I have looked a bit at zun ... a few slide decks and a few summit presentation videos.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">I am somewhat familiar with old container orchestration attempts in openstack ... nova and heat.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">And somewhat familiar with Magnum for COEs on VMs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Question 1:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:red">-</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:red">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:red">in long term, will ZUN manage containers hosted by OpenStack VMs or OpenStack Hosts or both ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">o</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">I think the answer is both, and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">o</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">I think technically ZUN will manage the containers in OpenStack VM(s) or OpenStack Host(s), thru a COE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:108.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">§</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">where the COE is kubernetes, swarm, mesos ... or, initially, some very simple default COE provided by ZUN itself.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<b><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">[Hongbin Lu] Yes. Zun aims to support containers in VMs, baremetal, or COEs in long term. A clarification is Zun doesn’t aim to become a COE, but it could be used together with Heat [1] to achieve
some container orchestration equivalent functionalities. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<b><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">[1] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437810/</span></i></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Question 2:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:red">-</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:red">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:red">what is currently supported in MASTER ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">[Hongbin Lu] What currently supported is container-in-baremetal scenario. The next release might introduce container-in-vm. COE integration might be the long term pursue.</span></i></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Question 3:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">-</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">in the scenario where ZUN is managing containers thru Kubernetes directly on OpenStack Host(s)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">o</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">I believe the intent is that,<br>
at the same time, and on the same OpenStack Host(s),<br>
NOVA is managing VMs on the OpenStack Host(s)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:red">o</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:red">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:red">??? Has anyone started to look at the Resource Management / Arbitration of the OpenStack Host’s Resources,<br>
between ZUN and NOVA ???<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">[Hongbin Lu] No, it hasn’t. We started with an assumption that Zun and Nova are managing disjoined set of resources (i.e. compute hosts) so there
is not resource contention. The ability to share compute resources across multiple OpenStack services for VMs and containers is cool and it might require discussions across multiple teams to build consensus of this pursue.</span></i></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Question 4:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">-</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">again, in the scenario where ZUN is managing containers thru Kubernetes directly on OpenStack Host(s)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:red">-</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:red">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:red">what are the Technical Pros / Cons of this approach, relative to using OpenStack VM(s) ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">o</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">PROs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:red">§</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:red">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:red">??? does this really use less resources than the VM Scenario ???<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:144.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:red">·</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:red">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:red">is there an example you can walk me thru ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">§</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">I suppose that instead of pre-allocating resources to a fairly large VM for hosting containers,<br>
you would only use the resources for the containers that are actually launched, <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">o</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">CONs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">§</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">for application containers, you are restricted by the OS running on the OpenStack Host,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">[Hongbin Lu] Yes, there are pros and cons of either approach, and Zun is not biased on either approach. Instead, Zun aims to support both if it is feasible.</span></i></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Greg.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">WIND RIVER <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Titanium Cloud<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>